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"instant" joint breaks illegal in UFC?

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    #76
    Originally posted by Gustard View Post
    Not really - I tapped him out with ude garame a minute later. I just wasnt expecting it - hardly ever see them so I havent really trained to defend them.
    I bet lots of things work in a BJJ format that don't work in an MMA format.

    Also, lots of things work for bouncers, who don't need to "win" a match to get someone out the door, and for police who are heavily protected by partners, weapons, and the law itself, that don't work in the cage. I bet I could win lots of MMA matches if I could hit my opponent, or get him in a hold, but if my opponent risked years in prison or a five-person baton beatdown if he even tried to strike me.

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      #77
      Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the hand wraps and gloves also make it more difficult to get someone in a wrist lock? If the whole point of the lock is to bend the wrist and the wraps and gloves are stabilising the wrist for punching, then my guess is that it would be a lot harder.

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        #78
        Renato Tavares has some wicked wrist locks



        If your skilled enough you can tap anyone out with anything.

        But in MMA with gloves on and all the medical tape, I doubt you could pull it off.
        Last edited by Like_A_Boss; 4/26/2011 12:59am, .

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          #79
          Originally posted by Apollo1982 View Post
          Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the hand wraps and gloves also make it more difficult to get someone in a wrist lock? If the whole point of the lock is to bend the wrist and the wraps and gloves are stabilising the wrist for punching, then my guess is that it would be a lot harder.
          I think you're on to something.
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          Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

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            #80
            Originally posted by jdempsey View Post
            sounds like bullshit to me
            If you are deliberately injured by an opponent in ANY sport as a result of 'dangerous play' you can get yourself a lawyer. So if someone breaks your arm and obviously left no opportunity for you to tap or continued to apply the technique after you tapped then you would probably have a case.

            'Instant' in the title suggests not giving any time to submit and therefore 'dangerous play'.
            Last edited by Grey Owl; 4/26/2011 3:46am, .

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              #81
              Roy Dean did a dvd called Art of the Wristlock. He is BB in Aikido and BJJ. As for MMA use I go with the theory that wraps and gloves make it difficult and personally I find it unusual for a savy opponent to leave a wrist isolated.

              http://www.roydeanacademy.com/dvds

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                #82
                apart from going for higer percentage targets, etc here's some thoughts on wrist locks with wraps on
                hyper flexing aka kotegaeshi: wraps are passive protection
                hyper extension aka stirrup lock: wraps are passive protection
                hyper pronation (flexed wrist) aka nikyo: (see hyper flexion) little purchase without the flexed wrist
                hyper pronation 2 (straight wrist) aka sankyo: bulk of gloves make the hand edge grab a little tricky
                radial and ulner deviation: rare anyway, I'll wrap up and check them out tonight

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                  #83
                  Originally posted by Grey Owl View Post
                  So if someone breaks your arm and obviously left no opportunity for you to tap or continued to apply the technique after you tapped then you would probably have a case.
                  You might have an argument in the latter case, but certainly not in the former because it isn't against the rules. Being knocked out doesn't give you the opportunity to submit beforehand, either.

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                    #84

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                      #85
                      Originally posted by Coach Josh View Post
                      Dave Camerillo. Shinya Aoki would disagree. I have DISLOCATED a couple myself and actually broke a bone another time. You don't break a joint you dislocate it.
                      You don't "dislocate" a joint, you disorientate it.
                      Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                      KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                      In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                      Luta Livre flees the fight,
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                      Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

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                        #86
                        Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
                        You might have an argument in the latter case, but certainly not in the former because it isn't against the rules. Being knocked out doesn't give you the opportunity to submit beforehand, either.
                        Excellent point.

                        However I was only concerned by the 'instant break' aspect as I would hope that when competing opponents are not trying to break my arm and certainly not instantly (therefore before I have the opportunity to tap!). I would hope that they were applying enough pressure to force a submission rather than a break.

                        It's only really a question of intent, hard to prove I will admit, but if you intend to injure your opponent then that is outside the rules.

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                          #87
                          Originally posted by Grey Owl View Post

                          It's only really a question of intent, hard to prove I will admit, but if you intend to injure your opponent then that is outside the rules.
                          Semantics dictates this is incorrect as well. In the UFC, and most fighting of that nature, your job is to win and injure your opponent until they can no longer continue. This would include damage up to and including a KO.

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                            #88
                            [QUOTE=Gustard;2539352Also youd think the cops and doormen would go for a technique that was more effective and required less of a skill gap - after all they have a lot to lose if it goes wrong...[/QUOTE]

                            Because they are not really alowed to punch, kick, choke and drop poeple on their heads.
                            It is the most effective after that
                            Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
                            http://www.facebook.com/#!/WhitsundayMartialArts

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                              #89
                              Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                              Semantics dictates this is incorrect as well. In the UFC, and most fighting of that nature, your job is to win and injure your opponent until they can no longer continue. This would include damage up to and including a KO.
                              I was specifically thinking of BJJ for this point to be honest. Playing to the extreme though knocking the guy out isn't a problem brain damage however is. I'm talking about deliberately flouting the rules and going too far because you intend to do damage. Maybe because of a personal dislike or because said person is unbalanced.

                              However hard to prove if it could be proven then this person HAS broken the rules/law.

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                                #90
                                A wrist lock would be virtually impossible under the current UFC ruleset - there is a rule that prohibits holding onto your opponent's glove. I can think of very few wristlocks that do not require holding the hand/glove area.
                                "Never trust a quote you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln



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