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How we can save Aikido: An honest opinion.

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  • Ignorami
    replied
    He's got a 4/5 dvd set of "combat aikido" too. It's a good watch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt Phillips
    replied
    Colin, you may be interested in Delucia Aikido (Aikikenpo) which is a combination of Aikido, Satori Ryu Kenpo and Pancrase Hybrid Wrestling aka Karl Gotch Catch Wrestling.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ignorami
    replied
    We do a fair bit of that kneeling technique stuff at Aikido. As best I can figure, it's main usefulness (to us at least) is it cleans up peoples footwork, and stops them shuffling about.

    Aikido technique (not the silly wristlocks, but good irimi & kuzushi) needs good committed hip movement, to provide a lot of full body power. During standing techiniques, students piss a lot of this away with shuffling and and lots of little half steps. It's hard to do that kneeling down - you have to throw your hips into every movement just to be serviceably mobile. That makes it good for forming those habits.

    Also, it's difficulty forces people to prioritise their body movement. Often when standing, they concentrate too much on trying to weave and grab punches out of the air instead of "getting the fuck intae him" (as the scottish might say).

    As for using it for newaza? meh, it's ok as long as you stay up on your knees - it doesn't offer anything for the floor.

    Leave a comment:


  • Colin
    replied
    Firstly, sorry about delay - got no internet at home right now.

    Originally posted by Permalost View Post
    Yes, wristlocks can work on the ground. It was the half guard part I was thinking about as crappling. Note that the man in the video is not in half guard.
    Indeed.
    The Aikido system that I trained in had a set of some 12-15 techniques known inside the organisation as 'Newaza', although now that I've had a taste of ACTUAL Newaza, the best way to describe this set of Aikido techniques is the: "In case you are having a Japanese tea drinking ceremony, and the bastard across from you tries to slit your throat while you are pouring tea." techniques.

    These typically mirrored the same jointlocking compliance techniques you see standing up (first through fifth form, look em up yourself) with the only major difference being that you are kneeling down when the attack starts, and you typically move through the technique via "kneewalking" which is actually more efficient than it sounds. (the kneewalking, not the technique).

    This being said - I would suspect the average Aikidoka to probably fare better on the ground than your typical person un-schooled in grappling, owing to a small degree of transferability.

    TL;DR version: Grappling > Crappling > Nothing

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  • Permalost
    replied
    Originally posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Like this?

    I've actually learned quite a few nasty wristlocks in BJJ.
    They are much, much worse on the ground than standing imo.
    Yes, wristlocks can work on the ground. It was the half guard part I was thinking about as crappling. Note that the man in the video is not in half guard.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChenPengFi
    replied
    Originally posted by Permalost View Post
    I know this technique. If anyone picks up on this, I'll bet it'll be the consensus that aikido gooseneck from the half guard = crappling.
    Like this?

    I've actually learned quite a few nasty wristlocks in BJJ.
    They are much, much worse on the ground than standing imo.

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    Originally posted by BSONE View Post
    I doubt you would ever see him work like that. It would be cool, but the guy is in his late fifties, and gets paid to teach aikido all over the world. Why risk it? Especially when the point is to be fantastical, its aikido.

    Myself, I know that for more relaistic training judo would be the best, if I wanted to stick with traditonal Japanese arts. But I like the fantasy side of aikido, its fun and intersting for me even after 20 years.
    Well, I'm no aikido basher. I've worked with aikidoka who were quite skilled, had great balance, movement, etc. My judo instructor had a lot of respect for aikido, and took some important lessons from it regarding his and hence my judo training as well.

    You have to look at things in context. In the context of what the founder had in mind, aikido is just fine. Judo is more "realistic", but still, very lacking in terms of the context of MMA (no striking) or "street" type self defense (no weapons, no striking, etc.) And that is OK in the context of the basic idea of Kano. Even that evolved over time.

    In Judo, one gets used to hard physical contact and resisting training partners (even this depends on where and how/why one trains), and can develop a tough mental attitude, etc.

    Ben

    Leave a comment:


  • DCS
    replied
    Not counting noobs allowed to do wristlocks in gi rolling... At that phase they should be working on basics instead of pulling techniques that are usually illegal until blue.

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  • Permalost
    replied
    Originally posted by Colin View Post
    To address the topic of Aikido transferable techniques into groundfighting, last night while rolling (BJJ with GI) I was rolling with another beginner (even wetter behind the ears than me, and a good 5-6 years younger) and he told me that he had a hapkido background (he wasn't arrogant or anything like that about it, the guys in my gym are pretty straight forward with each other about previous experience) and I mentioned my Aikido background, while I was grabbing his bent and turtled "t-rex" arm, turning the wristlock into a Nikyo, my left arm controlling his left wrist, and my right arm (full grip with thumb too) hooking into the crook of his elbow, mimicking a grounded version of a first form type compliance lock (I lost the wrist control to gain the elbow control). I did this from half guard.

    An interesting Aikido/BJJ experience :D
    I know this technique. If anyone picks up on this, I'll bet it'll be the consensus that aikido gooseneck from the half guard = crappling.

    Leave a comment:


  • BSONE
    replied
    Originally posted by BKR View Post
    Some nice ukemi there, and interesting movements, some of which looked they might have some practical value. Aikido has some good stuff in it, but as in this video, some of it is kind of fantastical. I'd like to see him work with someone who can really punch/strike. He has nice looking tai sabaki.

    Ben
    I doubt you would ever see him work like that. It would be cool, but the guy is in his late fifties, and gets paid to teach aikido all over the world. Why risk it? Especially when the point is to be fantastical, its aikido.

    Myself, I know that for more relaistic training judo would be the best, if I wanted to stick with traditonal Japanese arts. But I like the fantasy side of aikido, its fun and intersting for me even after 20 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • BSONE
    replied
    Originally posted by BKR View Post
    Any time I see someone labelled as "shihan" I cringe.

    Some nice ukemi there, and interesting movements, some of which looked they might have some practical value. Aikido has some good stuff in it, but as in this video, some of it is kind of fantastical. I'd like to see him work with someone who can really punch/strike. He has nice looking tai sabaki.

    Note, I'm not jamming on the "shihan", just giving my honest opinion.

    Ben
    I know what you mean about the "Shihan" labell, it gets thrown around way too much, especially in the fringe aikido community. Tissier is legit though, at least as far as hombu aikikai is concerned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oonjuk
    replied
    Originally posted by DCS View Post
    For defending RNC & harness attempts.
    Thanks! Why haven't I thought about that. *facepalm*

    Leave a comment:


  • DCS
    replied
    Anybody tried sankyo in groundfighting?
    For defending RNC & harness attempts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oonjuk
    replied
    Originally posted by Colin View Post
    To address the topic of Aikido transferable techniques into groundfighting....
    An interesting Aikido/BJJ experience :D
    We were doing this drill in BJJ this Wednesday.

    I haven't learned how to do a chicken wing wristlock properly yet, so I was naturally doing an Ikyo wristlock to finish instead.
    The BJJ club president encourages me to utilize my training from Aikido into BJJ. So far, I've found rolls, ikyo, and nikyo from Aikido transferable to groundfighting. Anybody tried sankyo in groundfighting?

    Leave a comment:


  • Colin
    replied
    To address the topic of Aikido transferable techniques into groundfighting, last night while rolling (BJJ with GI) I was rolling with another beginner (even wetter behind the ears than me, and a good 5-6 years younger) and he told me that he had a hapkido background (he wasn't arrogant or anything like that about it, the guys in my gym are pretty straight forward with each other about previous experience) and I mentioned my Aikido background, while I was grabbing his bent and turtled "t-rex" arm, turning the wristlock into a Nikyo, my left arm controlling his left wrist, and my right arm (full grip with thumb too) hooking into the crook of his elbow, mimicking a grounded version of a first form type compliance lock (I lost the wrist control to gain the elbow control). I did this from half guard.

    An interesting Aikido/BJJ experience :D

    Leave a comment:

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