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How we can save Aikido: An honest opinion.

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    I fractured both my elbows last year getting thrown in MT clinch training, a career ending injury that probably wouldn't have occurred if we'd been taught how to break fall properly.

    I can see the benefit of having someone on hand to teach break falls to an MMA or MT class, i just don't think an Aikido guy is right for the job. Why have a coach at the gym who can only teach people how to fall when you could have a coach who can teach people how to fall and throw (judo).
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon

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      Sang, I tend to agree with you.
      I do feel that Judo training is preferable to Ukemi only training.
      If none of the guys doing Judo are doing MT at an individual gym though - is there an opportunity for an ex-aikidoka?
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        I don't think there is an opportunity for an Aikidoka to make money in this method but there is for a gym member to pass on his previously learnt skills to the ever evolving gym culture.

        We've had TKD guys come in and teach some kicks, a Kung Fu guy teach some catch and dump variations and a wrestler way back taught me how to use the head as another arm in the clinch. None of these guys were paid for their help though and every coach I've trained under would laugh in the Aikidoka's face who suggested they could teach their fighters how to fall for a small fee.
        "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
        Kenny Weldon

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          I think you're probably right Sang.
          For what it's worth, I've never charged money for any previous instruction, (I have taught many of my friends how to play guitar, for example), and if I ended up running a pilot course in my current gym, I wouldn't be charging for that, either.

          I did previously mention financial advantage in the thread, and that part of the argument looks pretty silly now :)
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            Originally posted by Sang View Post
            I fractured both my elbows last year getting thrown in MT clinch training, a career ending injury that probably wouldn't have occurred if we'd been taught how to break fall properly.
            Sorry to hear that.

            I can see the benefit of having someone on hand to teach break falls to an MMA or MT class, i just don't think an Aikido guy is right for the job. Why have a coach at the gym who can only teach people how to throw themselves when you could have a coach who can teach people how to fall and throw (judo).
            Fixed.

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              Off Topic - This talk about Muay Thai and Judo has me thinking, what would that look like in an MMA type setting? It's frequently mentioned that Muay Thai and BJJ are a great combo, as are Boxing and Judo, but what about Muay Thai and Judo? Shame there's not a MT place nearby for me to test it out...
              "Keep a sharp knife, shiny boots and be on time."

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                I trained Muay Thai as a striking art when I was dabbling in MMA and was thinking of working towards a fight.

                My game plan was take the striking and range closing to clinch of Muay Thai and then throw them and gnp.

                I only trained Muay Thai and MMA for a few months though. So the actual product was crappy jab, crappy jab, sloppy low kick, cappy jab, retard rush, clinch, Harai goshi, get mount whilst they're still trying to work out what has happened and then tapy-tapy gnp.

                The only flaw in this world conquering strategy is when they evade the retard rush or the retard rush doesn't let you get a decent clinch and they manage to slip out before you have control. Then it becomes me chasing them around the mat whilst being hit in the face.
                sigpic

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                  I'm having a world of fun combining muay thai clinch work with no gi takedowns at this mma gym. Smaller gloves, endless clinching without ref breaking and the removal of archaic MT takedown rules like 'no boot to boot sweeps' makes for a hell of a lot of fun.

                  Personally i would love to see a thai boxer with good leg kicks and authentic clinch skills (extremely rare in the western world) combined with high level judo skills compete in mma.

                  Colin; i don't have a problem with what you are doing, imo it is no different from a gym regular with a TKD background showing guys how to do spinning back kicks. Its ok as long as the TKD guy knows wtf he is doing.

                  i need to see videos of you being slammed, thrown and tripped under realistic conditions such as *suprise suplex on ice!* and *Colin ges Harai Goshi'd off a moving vehicle* before i can give your teaching the green light.
                  "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
                  Kenny Weldon

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                    Originally posted by Sang View Post
                    I need to see videos of you being slammed, thrown and tripped under realistic conditions such as *suprise suplex on ice!* and *Colin ges Harai Goshi'd off a moving vehicle* before i can give your teaching the green light.
                    This would be worth doing just for the awesomeness of it. I probably WON'T do anything like this, but it would definitely be AWESOME :D
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                      Originally posted by Sang View Post
                      *Colin ges Harai Goshi'd off a moving vehicle* before i can give your teaching the green light.
                      I've done a zenpo kaiten ukemi off a moving farm truck onto a field, no video though unfortunately.
                      sigpic

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                        Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
                        I trained Muay Thai...the actual product was crappy jab, crappy jab, sloppy low kick, cappy jab, retard rush, clinch, Harai goshi, get mount whilst they're still trying to work out what has happened and then tapy-tapy gnp.

                        The only flaw in this world conquering strategy is when they evade the retard rush or the retard rush doesn't let you get a decent clinch and they manage to slip out before you have control. Then it becomes me chasing them around the mat whilst being hit in the face.
                        What if you'd actually gotten decent at it?

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                          Originally posted by Lindz View Post
                          What if you'd actually gotten decent at it?
                          Either A:
                          In that case, I'd assert that his 'retard rush' (I have one of those, too) would give him a good clinch occasionally.

                          or B:
                          Karo Parysian
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                            Originally posted by Lindz View Post
                            What if you'd actually gotten decent at it?
                            If he got decent at what, failing the retard rush or getting punched in the face?

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                              Originally posted by Colin View Post
                              This is a pretty unfair comment.
                              Rating or no rating? I'm really not too fussed about - though you claim I know next to nothing about Ukemi?
                              Maybe I misread your rank in aikido after 8 years, and your rank in Judo after two years? Correct me if I'm wrong.

                              As far as teaching ukemi, being able to do it and being able to teach it are two different things.

                              Ben
                              Falling for Judo since 1980

                              "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                              "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                              "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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                                Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
                                I've done a zenpo kaiten ukemi off a moving farm truck onto a field, no video though unfortunately.
                                One of ours managed a rolling ukemi over a car roof from his bicycle, when a lady pulled out in front of him.

                                While ukeing for a particularly uncontrolled first kyu grading (twat candidate), the same guy rolled up an internal brick buttress and came down on his feet.

                                Sadly I can't take credit for teaching him any of that. He came to us pre-trained. I visited his old dojo once though, and the matting goes to the edge of the room, and about 3-4 feet up the walls.
                                sigpic

                                When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

                                "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
                                "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti

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