@Aikido/Aikijujutsu Practicality

[The Juggernoob]

All I'm saying is while it might have no live training like other martial arts, it still makes you more equiped to handle someone that has no training experience at all.

In my opinion at the very least.

You're wrong, but I wont hold it against you.

If you're ok holding out for "it gives a bit of an edge" , why not do something that works a little better.

The fact that there is a mahoosive great "criticisms" section in wikipedia kind of says it all really.

[Jim_Jude]

Yes, you caught me in an error. Oh no.

The problem is that when you make statement about blanket statements it invariably becomes a blanket statement.

Perhaps the more accurate thing to say is that not every blanket statement is accurate.

I'll give it a try. Most blanket statements are simply hyperbole.

[Jim_Jude]

Yes, I did a ninjutsu thread...and why? Because I was looking into it as something to study...but I wanted some guidance first...you know, legitimacy of teachers, organizations, history...that kind of thing. Damn me for being cautious and inquisitive...

It doesn't take a master to know that there are better things out there than Ninjutsu.

[The Juggernoob]

It doesn't take a master to know that there are better things out there than Ninjutsu.

[Ignorami]

I'd love to see a deadliest warrior esque program. "Today we're breaking down the battle between a builder and a sandan Aikido prac". Builder uses "working man's strength", Aikodoka responds with "look at my pretty skirt".

This is a retarded argument in which you assume a universe where no aikido practitioners are allowed to be builders.

Does Aikido even have punches? I think an effective martial art should at least have those.

Yes it does. They are hidden under the same false floorboards as the judo punches.

I dont get it, whats the point. They may as well just throw it at them. I saw 3 possibilities for an earth shattering seoinage there. I may have to enter some aikido comps to troll the skirt wearing pansies.

Why not attend some classes training for those comps, and then criticise it from a standpoint which includes an understanding of their aims. It's like listening to a Thai boxer moan that no one in a judo comp is kneeing anyone in the face.

Aikido has enough problems to discuss (the main and probably only really relevant one being it's lack of alive training). Resorting to ranting about skirt wearing pansies is better suited to ymas than this forum.

If the judo threads were full of aikibunnies laughing that judoka give bad head because all them have fucked knees, people would be getting infractions.

[Jim_Jude]

Are you posting that in support of my statement? Because it appears to support me. Just saying.... ;-]

[The Juggernoob]

I posted it for giggles. Im glad it has helped your cause.

[Jim_Jude]

I posted it for giggles. Im glad it has helped The Cause.

Fixed that for you, bro

[The Juggernoob]

Fixed that for you, bro

"The cause" implies that there is a struggle against the flow of sewage spewing from the bujinkan organisation, a torrent of bullshit that confuses noobs and angers martial artists the world over. Oh wait, it is like that, silly me, you're right.

[FinalLegion]

It doesn't take a master to know that there are better things out there than Ninjutsu.

But it does take asking some questions and getting some answers to reach that understanding; otherwise, as you've said before...it's all hyperbole.

[FinalLegion]

You're wrong, but I wont hold it against you.

If you're ok holding out for "it gives a bit of an edge" , why not do something that works a little better.

The fact that there is a mahoosive great "criticisms" section in wikipedia kind of says it all really.

First off, citing Wikipedia as a source isn't such a good idea. It may be useful as a place to start, but using it as a primary source isn't so effective most times because chances are the information is so broad and tertiary that you don't get a whole picture, not to mention that any member can edit any page, so any information can be circumspect. This is why teachers of academics despise it when students try to 'Wiki their way' into a grade. Wikipedia is an okay starting point, but it's all about corroborated data.

Second, having looked at the aikido page, the 'Criticisms' section isn't what I'd call a 'mahoosive great' section. It pretty much just a repeat of what you get here: the lack of alive training and the fact that Ueshiba got all spiritually one with his enlightened self...or whatever you want to call it...and removed emphasis from what, in the eyes, made aikido viable. The only other criticism is that there are practitioners that are seemingly upset with other practitioners who, in their eyes, deviate from Ueshiba's teachings, i.e., the softer, more 'spiritually inclined' teachings...ki and all that jazz.

I don't think we're going to get anyone here complaining about proper ki usage and other such sorcery...at least I hope not.

[Mister]

If you're ok holding out for "it gives a bit of an edge" , why not do something that works a little better.

I do Aikido because I like it, and I do Judo because I like it. They both have the discipline that I need. Being a street fighter isn't my goal but what I'm trying to say is that fighting comes with the package be it a "weak" martial art or a martial art that has sparring and live training.

Maybe you've seen something like Expert Village Aikido or an otherwise obese guy and uke not attacking with intent. It has been posted here before I thought it was a joke.

And on the strikes topic...

Atemi in Aikido looks something like this:

I don't know all I can say is maybe if you visit our dojo and everyone is actually present we can change your mind. Otherwise there's not much I can say to change your mind.

But hey I tried...

Just to be clear I'm not claiming to have the deadly way of Aikido or an ancient voodoo way of doing it, I'm only saying that in my dojo we practice with more emphasis on the martial aspect, as my teacher has been into other arts for a long time, Shotokan Karate, Freestyle Wrestling, and Sanda to name a few, he doesn't approve of ineffective technique or weak control during training.

I can't count the number of times I heard the words "Don't be soft this is a Martial Art" in the dojo.

[FinalLegion]

I do Aikido because I like it, and I do Judo because I like it. They both have the discipline that I need. Being a street fighter isn't my goal but what I'm trying to say is that fighting comes with the package be it a "weak" martial art or a martial art that has sparring and live training.

Maybe you've seen something like Expert Village Aikido or an otherwise obese guy and uke not attacking with intent. It has been posted here before I thought it was a joke.

And on the strikes topic...

Atemi in Aikido looks something like this:

I don't know all I can say is maybe if you visit our dojo and everyone is actually present we can change your mind. Otherwise there's not much I can say to change your mind.

But hey I tried...

Just to be clear I'm not claiming to have the deadly way of Aikido or an ancient voodoo way of doing it, I'm only saying that in my dojo we practice with more emphasis on the martial aspect, as my teacher has been into other arts for a long time, Shotokan Karate, Freestyle Wrestling, and Sanda to name a few, he doesn't approve of ineffective technique or weak control during training.

I can't count the number of times I heard the words "Don't be soft this is a Martial Art" in the dojo.

I understand what you're trying to say, really...but man...this video you posted is not helping aikido out.

Look at the uke. He's pretty much walking up to the instructor and trying to nail him with a 'karate chop'. Who hits people like that??? There is no speed from the uke, no resistance from the uke. The lesson is impractical because the demonstration of the application is impractical.

Now, this doesn't prove to me that aikido is valueless, but this demonstration isn't very valuable because of it's impractical and unrealistic approach.

[Ignorami]

On the upside for using that video... Nishio was a Kodokan Judo 4th dan, and saw enough value in Aikido to make it his primary art.

[Mister]

The video assumes that the first two strikes will soften your opponent up or distract them and make it easier for you to actually do the technique. It assumes that an untrained opponent who just took a hit in the face will be compliant for a split second because hes either knocked the hell out or distracted by trying to block it.

That's not so impractical, is it?

The "Karate Chop" or the shape of uke's hand isn't the point of the attack, the attack angle is what the instructor is trying to demonstrate. In other words, a large haymaker (seen it in real fights, many many times, but I have no proof) would have the same principle as the "Karate Chop".