@Aikido/Aikijujutsu Practicality

[Oonjuk]

My only shame is that it took this long for me to realize what a waste of time you are. My bad.

Then CAN YOU STFU AND TRAIN NOW? You are spamming my email inbox with BS.
And as a guy who actually trains Aikido, I'll requote someone from the forum.

"Aikido is good for demonstrating several concepts in martial arts but it sucks at actually applying them"

<-which I cannot agree more as an Aikidoka. I train Aikido to work on my ukemi, some martial arts concepts, and for my own enjoyment, BUT there's no fucking way I can make them work unless I got the guy completely pinned on the ground or nearly knocked out with a strike.

And don't throw BS regarding how I am supposedly suckier than the other guy, because pure Aikido doesn't work on people who are in shape (unless they are standing perfectly still).

[FinalLegion]

Alright...now that I've gotten myself calmer and thought about it....you guys are right. My experiences are extremely limited, observation is a not substitute for hands on experience and I should just get on with my training. I apologize to anyone I insulted, angered or otherwise annoyed.

I do want to express that I honestly wasn't trying to BS anyone. I walked in here, relating the situation as I understood it and was thinking this could be something like...I don't know...a Q&A session, with me asking the Q's and everyone else who knows better than me giving the A's. I suppose the problem is that I don't have enough experience to give a good opinion on this topic and maybe that's what I should have gathered that that is what you guys were telling me.

Anyways, I'm sorry it went the way it did and in the future, I'll do my best to learn more and talk less...or at least learn more before I talk.

[Rock Ape]

I'm here now, what did I miss, anything different from the plethora of previous "does aki work" threads ?

Has anyone been called a RETARD yet or mentioned the Moons of Jupiter ?

[Ignorami]

Shodokan AND Daito-Ryu aikido both employ sparring, or randori as it is called in aikido. As students progress in their training, the uke (attacker) is directed to be more and more aggressive with the nage (defender). An aikido student cannot even earn a black belt without passing a randori in which they face three uke at once...three uke who are permitted to use any kind of attack or strike upon the nage. Modern aikido practitioners favor the emphasis on randori so as to create a better defense art.

FinalLegion:

I have 20 years aikido. Am a 2nd dan. I have trained a number of different styles, including tomiki/shodokan, Yoshinkan, and aikikai. I'm far from brilliant at aikido, but would consider myself competent enough to use as an example of what aikido is like.

I am also probably one of the few aikidoka that spars against Muay Thai.

Let me say, in capital letters... RANDORI IS NOT SPARRING. IN ALMOST ALL CASES, IT IS NOT EVEN SIMILAR TO SPARRING.

the MT guys I spar against have been training no more than 2 years, and it is a fucking nightmare.

You say that if a MT guy hits an aikido guy, it'd be over, but that if an Aiki guy throws an MT guy, it would also be over. This is true, but the factor you've missed is odds.

The odds of the MT guy landing a solid hit are high. The odds of the aikido guy landing a throw are small.

Switch the aikido for judo, and that ratio changes. Randori in judo IS like sparring.

(And that's not even mentioning the retarded moons of Jupiter.)

[Rock Ape]

Modern aikido practitioners favor the emphasis on randori so as to create a better defense art.

Do you understand the differences between the IDEOLOGY of aikido and the PRACTICALITIES of physical conflict ?

[Gezere]

Noob with limited experience in the art he is defending. CHECK
Noob being called on his BS. CHECK
Noob gets defensive and whines. CHECK
People who actually train the art telling noob he is wrong. CHECK
Moons of Jupiter. NONE!

Hopefully noob makes good on his promise to STFU and train.

[Mister]

A nidan and shodan in my dojo tell me they've used Aikido in streetfights once (each) and "won". But the fights involved quick atemi to the throat and balls respectively THEN Aikido techniques, because well... this is how we train (well not the balls part in the dojo at least I don't want to lose the jewels of the family as we call them here in my country).

No, I haven't seen the fights happen, and no I don't believe or disbelieve them.

I just take it as it is told to me until further confirmation, one of them likes to look good and badass and brags all the time, so he might have lied about it, but the other is pretty much a standup guy.

Maybe that answers your questions about the "Aiki" practicality.

Maybe not. I don't know. As for me I haven't gotten into a fight since I started doing martial arts.

[Rock Ape]

A nidan and shodan in my dojo tell me...

Pictures or it likely never happened.

[Ignorami]

Pictures or it likely never happened.

My Aikido instructor told me a story about being attacked in real life...

As he stepped onto a descending escalator, a man smashed him in the back of the head with a glass milk bottle and knocked him out.

Now that I believe.

[Mister]

Pictures or it likely never happened.

I'll try to say this without sounding disrespectful.

Please don't pick my words out of context, I already said that I never saw it happen and that it may or may not be true, and that I thought that one of them is probably true because of me knowing the person saying it is a good guy, which can't be expressed in photographs.

I can't speak for someone else's integrity, which also can't be expressed in photographs.

The purpose of the comment was to help OP if I can by saying that maybe a good strike at an untrained opponent can pave the way for Aikido or otherwise "compliant" techniques.

Ultimately the only way to really know is to get into a fight. My theory (that has no proof) is not everyone on the street knows martial arts and can block a punch to the face. I've seen people take it square in the nose in fights and hit back, and people get a punch to the face and get knocked flat on their asses one hit KO but I can't prove that (or maybe I can there are some security camera fight footages on youtube if you want I can find them for you, but also those may or may not be fake).

I live in a dodgy part of town I've seen a lot of fights.

But I have no pictures to prove that either ...and if everyone assumes everyone is full of shit unless there's proof well...there's no point in discussing things.

From my limited experience some of the posts here on Bullshido are opinions or stories based on experience that have no proof.

I understand I'm the new guy and an "Aikibunny" so everything I say (to you) is most likely bullshit.

But...

Well there's no but.

...Am I not allowed to say what I think unless I have proof that it is true?

[FinalLegion]

I'll try to say this without sounding disrespectful.

Please don't pick my words out of context, I already said that I never saw it happen and that it may or may not be true, and that I thought that one of them is probably true because of me knowing the person saying it is a good guy, which can't be expressed in photographs.

I can't speak for someone else's integrity, which also can't be expressed in photographs.

The purpose of the comment was to help OP if I can by saying that maybe a good strike at an untrained opponent can pave the way for Aikido or otherwise "compliant" techniques.

Ultimately the only way to really know is to get into a fight. My theory (that has no proof) is not everyone on the street knows martial arts and can block a punch to the face. I've seen people take it square in the nose in fights and hit back, and people get a punch to the face and get knocked flat on their asses one hit KO but I can't prove that (or maybe I can there are some security camera fight footages on youtube if you want I can find them for you, but also those may or may not be fake).

I live in a dodgy part of town I've seen a lot of fights.

But I have no pictures to prove that either ...and if everyone assumes everyone is full of shit unless there's proof well...there's no point in discussing things.

From my limited experience some of the posts here on Bullshido are opinions or stories based on experience that have no proof.

I understand I'm the new guy and an "Aikibunny" so everything I say (to you) is most likely bullshit.

But...

Well there's no but.

...Am I not allowed to say what I think unless I have proof that it is true?

To be fair, when Rock Ape says "pics or it likely never happened", I don't think he's literally asking for photographic evidence...I think he's just saying "be skeptical".

That's a big part of the Bullshido experience, as I'm finding out. Personal experiences are fine, but anyone can say anything, so you have to be skeptical. This is like any other Internet forum....there are surely people whose personal experiences are true just as there are surely people whose personal experiences are false.

[Mister]

I know he wasn't asking for it literally...

All I'm saying is not everything has to be proven or is immediately bullshit, at least consider the possibility that it might have been true. It's not so outrageous that a guy trained in martial arts for several years (6 to Nidan or something) ("pussy", or "weak" as it might be) would beat a guy with no past experience and doesn't know how to punch or take a punch.

I already said I didn't believe or disbelieve it, isn't that skeptical enough? I never laid down the Gospel, I just repeated what I was told in hopes of helping or discussing something.

[Adam Alexander]

You're trying to tell us that there is no way that aikido can be a useful self-defense art. That's categorically untrue....

You accused others of making an appeal to accident. Then, you used an appeal to converse accident to prove their error.

You are wrong. There is sufficient evidence of Aikido's ineffectiveness to use the conclusion as a generalization. In order to disprove that generalization, you must present adequate evidence.

However, I would advise you (when you're not wrong, as you are today) to heed Solomon's advice: correct a mocker and he will hate you.

[FinalLegion]

You accused others of making an appeal to accident. Then, you used an appeal to converse accident to prove their error.

You are wrong. There is sufficient evidence of Aikido's ineffectiveness to use the conclusion as a generalization. In order to disprove that generalization, you must present adequate evidence.

However, I would advise you (when you're not wrong, as you are today) to heed Solomon's advice: correct a mocker and he will hate you.

I don't understand where you are getting 'appeal to accident'. An appeal to accident is when you claim that the action was wrong, but you don't take full responsibility, i.e., "I didn't do it on purpose". I'm not accusing anyone of that nor am I employing an 'converse accident'.

Then there's always the question...what is proof? How far does one need to go? Are personal accounts sufficient? Do we need photographs? Video evidence? Is the degree of evidence necessary relative to the claim?

I know that I have a LOT to learn and that despite all that I've observed, I can't speak adequately from the point of view as an active participant. However, since Bullshido encourages skepticism, I am indeed skeptical about any generalization concerning any art.

[The Juggernoob]

I know he wasn't asking for it literally...

All I'm saying is not everything has to be proven or is immediately bullshit, at least consider the possibility that it might have been true. It's not so outrageous that a guy trained in martial arts for several years (6 to Nidan or something) ("pussy", or "weak" as it might be) would beat a guy with no past experience and doesn't know how to punch or take a punch.

I already said I didn't believe or disbelieve it, isn't that skeptical enough? I never laid down the Gospel, I just repeated what I was told in hopes of helping or discussing something.

Aikido is so weak, instincts would have the advantage. Aikido falls into a very small category of MA that get everything so incredibly wrong, they're likely to be less able to defend themselves than your average working man.