Wrestling: Can you shed some light?

[Like_A_Boss]

This is a question I have been wanting to ask for ages. Please be aware I have zero knowledge of wrestling, so If my question sounds stupid, it probably is. Growing up I had no exposure to the sport whatsoever it is not a school sport like in the states, all we had was rugby and cricket.

So the question is what is the difference between wrestling and say BJJ or any other grappling style? I know there is a huge difference style wise but what? why is wrestling so good at controlling guys on the ground. Isn't BJJ exactlly the same isn't it still just wrestling?

I ask cause alot of my favourite fighters come from wrestling backgrounds, and alot of the BJJ guys have problems fighting wrestlers.

Yeah so thats it please excuse my ignorance and I hope someone can explain what makes wrestling different from other grappling styles.

[Rivington]

There are a zillion kinds of wrestling—every culture seems to have a wrestling style. Many of them are oriented toward either a throw or a pin. Some wrestling styles are oriented toward submissions or at least include submissions. Critics might argue that the submission wrestling styles try to get submissions without first cementing a dominant position—thus kooky wristlocks and whatnot. Wrestlers are generally very good at controlling people on the ground because they spend a lot of their time training to ride their opponents precisely that way.

[Like_A_Boss]

There are a zillion kinds of wrestling—every culture seems to have a wrestling style.

I suppose I mean your collegiate wrestling.

[Coach Josh]

The rules.

[tao.jonez]

Collegiate wrestler's entire goal is to control/restrain their opponent.

Look at the scoring and that will tell you a lot about it: You can win by pinning your opponents shoulders to the mat or by points. Points are based on takedowns, reversals, escapes, and "near fall". Near Fall means "almost pinned" basically.

In BJJ the goal is submission. The points for takedown, reversal, and escape are common to both, but in BJJ the idea is to put yourself in a position to cause your opponent to submit. So you can win off the bottom, top, side, etc. They don't necessarily train to get out/up under any circumstance, so they don't train it as much.

Because wrestling has a longer history in the US, there are a ton of highly trained wrestlers that are very good at "riding" their opponents. Plus hitting someone off your back is weak, and causes little damage in most cases. So a wrestler can ride on top, drop punches and elbows, and they're hard as shit to shake off.

(also BJJ takedowns and takedown defense generally sucks.)

[Mo_Fo]

also BJJ takedowns and takedown defense generally sucks.

As compaired to what? At my school we spend hours every week going over takedowns & defense.

[Petter]

As compaired to what? At my school we spend hours every week going over takedowns & defense.

As compared to collegiate/freestyle/generic Western wrestling; as compared to judo; as compared, generally, to sports where takedowns are a larger part of the game. The guys on your local wrestling team will be better than you at takedowns because they spend more time drilling it and because it’s more important to their sport.

Consider, too, that a lot of BJJ schools seem to spend virtually no time on the takedown game; just a shitty double-leg and a bunch of guard pulling. At my gym, sparring generally starts standing, but I gather this is far from universal. After all, you can win a BJJ match by buttflopping or a shitty guard pull, providing you have a strong bottom game.

[Mo_Fo]

no time on the takedown game; just a shitty double-leg and a bunch of guard pulling. At my gym, sparring generally starts standing, but I gather this is far from universal. After all, you can win a BJJ match by buttflopping or a shitty guard pull, providing you have a strong bottom game.

I stand corrected. Thank you for the insight.

[Petter]

I have no experience with BJJ schools that don’t do takedowns, but I have heard some horror stories. And while we do work takedowns every class at my school (excepting some beginner classes that occasionally get too crowded for throwing to be safe), I harbour no delusions that a standup fight with a collegiate wrestler would be anything but brief and painful. Yes, we work at least one takedown every class and spar with takedowns; yes, I know how to sprawl; but compared to a wrestler who has spent countless hours over the course of years shooting thousands of doubles and doing thousands of sprawls—

The focus of the sports is after all different. BJJ contains takedowns and dominant positions (similar to pins), so it virtually contains wrestling; but we also have to spend time—quite a lot of time—on submissions, a bottom game, and transitions between positions that make no sense for wrestling. When BJJ contains a wider repertoire and spends a lot of time on things like a guard game, of course wrestlers will develop their more narrow game to a much higher degree of perfection.

I also get the impression that wrestlers are more competitive, and have fewer purely recreational practitioners, than BJJ; they work harder and they work more conditioning, on average. I’ve yet to meet a wrestler who wasn’t monstrously strong and athletic on top of having great doubles and a claustrophobically heavy top game.

[M1K3]

It's kind of been covered above but may have been lost in some of the other details.

The main difference is the goal of bjj is a submission. The goal of wrestling is a pin.
In bjj being on your back is usually not a big deal and for some people a very good thing. In wrestling being on your back is very very bad. So wrestlers train very hard at getting people to their backs and staying off of their own backs. Wrestlers also do not have to worry about submissions.

Also as said above takedowns are very important and to get points you must end up on top off and in control of your opponent.

Also as pointed out above wrestling is a very competitive sport in high schools and colleges. You don't see many wrestling clubs except for elite athletes. You just don't run into many recreational wrestlers.

Hope that helps.

[tao.jonez]

As compaired to what? At my school we spend hours every week going over takedowns & defense.

You ever been to a competition outside your school?

[Mo_Fo]

You ever been to a competition outside your school?

As a spectator, yes. I have a fairly competitive school and I have watched several of my teammates compete. My professor is fairly well known and has won some impressive tourneys/mma fights as well and I enjoy watching those.

As a competitor? My first time will be the 24th of this month. The Pan at UC Irvine (nothing impressive, senior div/novice).

Pray tell, why do you ask?

[Like_A_Boss]

Hope that helps.

It does, thanks guys, I'm starting to understand.

[Blue Negation]

Mo_Fo: I imagine he's asking if you guys are able to take down most other BJJ schools' guys with ridiculous ease.

[Petter]

…And perhaps whether you have experience sparring standup with judoka, collegiate wrestlers, and the like.