Can we all just come to an agreement about Krav Maga?

[Devil]

Proper nomenclature is key. Because if someone asked me to pass them a clip I am handing him 10 rounds. If they say pass me a magazine I am handing over at least 30.

Bullshit! You're just an old school rigid anal bastard. You can say whatever you want as long as you get the point across. For instance, if you're calling for fire and don't understand something said on the radio you can say "Say again" or "Repeat". Who gives a fuck? They know what you mean.

[gregaquaman]

What confuses me the most about this is their guard... their arms are all way out there to the sides. I noticed that they were all soaking a ton of blows instead of blocking them too, which is kind of a war of attrition...
I wouldn't call it Kyokushin because of the way they are holding their arms in guard. But at least they are fighting with contact.

My sensei and I attended a "self defense course" at a local convention recently out of curiosity. It turned out that the people running it were krav maga people. After class, one of the people teaching (who did give the disclaimer that he was not an instructor beforehand) told me that his school was taught by a guy from Israel who trained Israeli troops... though this does seem to be something that is claimed a lot.

They were nice, and a lot of the stuff they demonstrated could work. Mostly fairly sensible. Really basic tricks to get out of a choke, etc. It seems that the blocks they were teaching were more the re-directing kind than the deflecting kind, if that makes any sense. The woman who was teaching said that one needed to be completely relaxed and not escalate the situation by putting any power behind the blocks. I kind of felt that if you are being flat-out assaulted, the time for worrying about escalation is kind of past, and it's time to worry about protecting yourself long enough to get the hell out of the situation. But that's me.

I did pick up a couple of useful little tricks. There are a million and one ways to get out of a choke or a grab, but I certainly don't mind learning one or two more.

I have heard that a lot of krav maga is about defense against stuff like knife attacks. When a person in the class asked how to defend against someone trying to stab you with a knife, the female instructor replied that you should hit them in the wrist on their knife hand with the blade of your hand (knife hand, ya know?) to numb it and make them drop the knife. At that moment I said "uh, that's a pretty big gamble there..." and she moved the class along pretty quick.

Now, I will say that I HAVE had my arm hit hard enough in just the right spot (on a nerve) to make it stop working for a few seconds, though I'm not sure I would drop something I was holding... and I know that limb destruction can have an effect in a fight *peers at bruises all over her arms* but even for someone who is very highly trained and skilled, hitting someone in just that spot with enough power to numb them is not easy. Someone who only takes an hour and a half long self defense course is probably going to end up either completely failing to do more than just kinda hit the person in the arm, or impaling their hand on the knife instead of hitting the wrist. You know, if you don't have a lot of practice, you should probably not try to karate-chop someone right next to live steel.

The man teaching was friendly though. He came and spoke to my sensei and I, and when we told him we did Kyokushin, he sorta flinched and said (to my sensei, not my fat ass, hah) "oh uh, nevermind, you could probably wipe the mat with me."

When I asked him about this bear hug escape they were doing where you were supposed to drop down while hooking and pulling apart the attacker's wrists, he was nice enough to let me demonstrate how someone fast could get you in a choke while you were crouching down there.

I decided I really couldn't judge the style by a couple of people anyway, but even if I was going by them, I couldn't really go by a beginner's self defense course, so I invited the gentleman to come to my dojo's next open sparring day, which mostly has Kyokushin people, MMA people and the like. There's some other styles who show up too- we have at least one Shorin Ryu guy who takes classes with one of the Kyokushin instructors once a week, and a Wing Chun guy, and a number of others. The guy was friendly and polite and a good sport, so I figured he'd do fine. He hasn't contacted me though, so I doubt he'll show up. Too bad, I was curious about how he'd do. Kind of wanted to see it in action during heavier contact sparring...

I really don't know enough yet to say what I think of the style on the whole. I know that for some people it has this hardcore reputation, and for others it is seen as a joke. I would like to see it in person in an alive, non-compliant fashion, because some of the things we practiced seemed to leave some openings that could be exploited... but of course there are always counter-counter moves too.

*shrug*

I do like to watch people in open sparring matches between styles. It would be cool if they showed up. Even if it turned out that they couldn't fight well, I am sure I could learn something from it. It's great to watch good fighters and pick up some "what to do" type ideas. It's great to watch crappy fighters and pick up some "what not to do" type ideas.

Not that it saves me when it's my turn on the mat, but hey, either one might give me a few more seconds before I go flying...

So, I propose that a sampling of krav maga people get invited to throwndowns and open sparring days. In the name of science!

I am going to go right out on a limb here but I reckon that those matches were either faked or demoes. It goes to the grappling and nobody seems to be trying to spoil any of the takedowns or submissions.

Here is some sport jujitsu as a sort of comparrison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0OprCc07Cw

[Mario915]

Himura,

Wow, thats fine and dandy that your daddy was in Vietnam. I didnt want to ride my fathers Vietnam coat tails, so when I was 18 I enlisted. My son will also have to soldier, otherwise he is going to forever be sitting at the kiddies table.

You said "I am not buying that" but as others here have shown you, dropping to one knee during reloading is common practice. Cover and concealment, very important. Now in hollywood yeah a shooter can stay standing and engage multiple targets without getting a scratch. However an old saying, an I am sure your daddy knows this since my father was taught it, as was I, as are guys right now " I am up, he sees me, Im down" staying up longer than it takes to say this will result in getting yourself lit up.

Gezere says he at Bragg, that means you should listen to him, they really get down at Bragg.
IMO opinion using your "high school rifle team" as experience is pretty lame. Most of us have been shooting since we were kids, you are not exclusive. I didnt shoot on my high school team, beacuse I was busy chasing skirt.

If from this post you retain nothing else please remeber this:

1.Keep It simple stupid.
2.Im up he sees me Im down.
3.Shoot, move, communicate.
4. Keep yourself small,pvt.

Now you may not buy these sayings, but you dont have to as others here who do not have to ride daddies coattails will verify that its something all service members learn, even the clerks.

[Rzero]

@jim_jude: No you didnt. I meant Evergrey.

How many push-ups for my mistake? :)

[Jim_Jude]

Bullshit! You're just an old school rigid anal bastard. You can say whatever you want as long as you get the point across. For instance, if you're calling for fire and don't understand something said on the radio you can say "Say again" or "Repeat". Who gives a fuck? They know what you mean.

Big Fat LOL

[Jim_Jude]

@jim_jude: No you didnt. I meant Evergrey.

How many push-ups for my mistake? :)

Well, how about 25? that's what I always had to do per "mistake", & you can do Marine Corps pushups unless you're a puss.

[Permalost]

Well, how about 25? that's what I always had to do per "mistake", & you can do Marine Corps pushups unless you're a puss.

25 is what my teacher has us do if we drop our stick.

[Jim_Jude]

Well, there you go.

[vaquero de las nalgas]

Once when Bullshido was down for maintenance I went over to sherdog to see what all the fuss was about.

When someone asked "what is the best style to defend yourself in prison" the general consensus on sherdog was that "krav maNga" was the best all around MA. What a bunch circkle jerking dumbasses. Obviously, if those turds knew anything they would have known it's krav maga not "krav manga". If they aren't informed enough to even know the correct name of the style why would they even recommend an art they know nothing about. Nevermind, how stupid the OP was.

That's because all the soon-to-be-incarcerated posters at Sherdog are hoping all their potential man rape victims will be Krav Maga practitioners.

[Gezere]

Bullshit! You're just an old school rigid anal bastard. You can say whatever you want as long as you get the point across. For instance, if you're calling for fire and don't understand something said on the radio you can say "Say again" or "Repeat". Who gives a fuck? They know what you mean.

Damn right they better do what I mean not what I say!

[Rzero]

Well, how about 25? that's what I always had to do per "mistake", & you can do Marine Corps pushups unless you're a puss.

I had to look up Marine Corps pushups and they look like normal push-ups to me. So ok, 25 :)

[Evergrey]

We always do push-ups with our arms shoulder-width apart, on the first two knuckles of each hand, elbows rubbing the sides. 20 is standard if someone says "can't," otherwise it tends to be pretty arbitrary- whatever the instructor feels like at the time.
I said "can't" today. Split my knuckle on the floor, again, hah!

[Rzero]

Knuckle push-ups? Ouch.

[Evergrey]

Yeah, I have a 5th lump forming between the first two knuckles of my right hand. It's scar tissue, because the knuckle just keeps splitting open, between push-ups on the knuckle, punching someone's gi (that fabric's kinda rough) hundreds of times, and surprise kumite, it hasn't gone away for the past 7 months. Just keeps re-splitting. Eventually it'll be like, the pad of an elephant's foot or something. Now I'll never be a teen hand model! Especially since I'm 31.

Knuckle push-ups, using the triceps instead of the biceps, over the edge of the mat so we are resting our knuckles on the carpet. Only because they don't happen to have any concrete inside.

Sometimes one of the instructors entertains himself by walking on one of our backs during push-ups.

This is a part of the warm-up section of class. We also throw ourselves at the ground a lot, run around a lot, bear-crawl, and maybe do burpees or V-ups or whatever for a while. Then we drill. Then we drill with contact (no not that that is way after class) and then we do kumite and hit and kick each other a lot.

Okay ambien walrus wants to cuddle now.

[Jim_Jude]

I had to look up Marine Corps pushups and they look like normal push-ups to me. So ok, 25 :)

This is a Marine Push-up. Don't worry, I too was corrected the first time one of the Sergeants at FMSS didn't like how I cleaned my rifle & told me to give him 25.
(Granted, his form sucks, he should be going lower, but he's got the count right & he's looking forward so he doesn't strain his neck)