Can we all just come to an agreement about Krav Maga?

[Permalost]

Gezere- have you ever worked with Eyal Yanilov? I did a seminar with him a few years ago, and I thought it was really good.

[Devil]

Its the rule for the professionals taught by professionals. The excepting is the civilians make believing they are the professionals. If you look up any IDF Krav training you will see some hard training. You look up ATA Krav training.......

Will the real Krav Maga please stand up?

I hear what you're saying, but quality training is still the exception when it comes to Krav Maga. When I search for IDF Krav Maga, I see some good training and I see a lot of the same dead fish Uke type stuff. And when the training is good, it looks nothing like the techniques that are supposed to be part of the system.

Granted, if there are military units out there doing the good shit, maybe they're not videotaping it. Makes sense to me. You say you've seen good Krav Maga training and I take your word for it. But your isolated example certainly isn't representative of the style as a whole.

If it's so good, it shouldn't be so hard to dig up examples of good training. And it's really fucking hard to dig 'em up.

[CoffeeFan]

And that it is utter bullshit? It's bad karate mixed with bad judo and bad jujutsu.

It's supposed to be wrestling + boxing, otherwise known as Pankration developed by a Persian who doesn't like wester europeans then it got to american and became some kind of bizarre "hardcore" angry white boy aikido/karate look-a-like.

WHY can't people just get over this?

Gotta disagree with you on this. If you learn KM from the IDF, you'll be learning good and practical stuff. However, KM got way out of control with the "weekend instructor courses" so there is a lot of horrible people claiming to represent the art.

Sad really, but if you find a good instructor you'll be learning sound and tested techniques.

[Gezere]

Gezere- have you ever worked with Eyal Yanilov? I did a seminar with him a few years ago, and I thought it was really good.

Never worked with Yanilov. I think there was a lot of drama going on with him and IKMF last year but I don't know what came of that.

Sadly there is drama and Bullshido in every art out there regardless how effective it may be.

[Ozchuck]

I've read a memoir from a IDF Veteran, it wasnt about being a badass, most of it was "omigosh, I had to shoot someone, but it was ok, because he was a terrorist" style stuff, but;

He went into some detail re: his training, and he describes the throws being used during full-contact training daily, and basically his 5'10" lietenant being able to kick his arse all day.

The guy has gone on to 'teach' US law enforcement agencies and security companies "IDF anti-terror technique" over weekend seminars... so I think I agree with what everyone is saying, where if you learned in the IDF, or from a serious Israeli, you will be ok, but if you're learning from a self-promoter teching quickly for money, you're not going anywhere.

[Jim_Jude]

Once when Bullshido was down for maintenance I went over to sherdog to see what all the fuss was about.

When someone asked "what is the best style to defend yourself in prison" the general consensus on sherdog was that "krav maNga" was the best all around MA. What a bunch circkle jerking dumbasses...

That seems like an obvious joke to me. Kinda like back in the day when we used to tell the kids that DP meant "Donkey Punch", & then they started donkey punching their chicks. My GF got so mad when she found out that guys like me spread that around the Interwebs back in the day so her high school boyfriend punched her in the back of the head & thought it would be cool.

[Jim_Jude]

Of course, being better than crap doesn't make it great, but I've heard krav maga get shot down from people defending styles with loads of bullshit. Glass houses, stones.

Also, Bas Rutten likes it.

I figure that Bas is probably talking about KM at the better end of the spectrum, not the craptastic Taeboesque cardio-KravMaga for housewives who don't know how to properly swing a skillet.

[Jim_Jude]

This is a video of a dude running his trap.

That's all you saw there? huh

[Himura]

Itay Gil's group is VERY good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U6Sm...eature=related

That guy needs to work on proper form when he is shooting that pistol. He makes a lot of excessive movements that slow down him down and decrease accuracy. He might still be very accurate, but that would sacrifice speed. This is especially true for the reload. I wouldn't go to that school for tactical shooting lessons. Maybe that was just a bad example, or I hold my standards for shooting too high.

[HereBeADragon]

That guy needs to work on proper form when he is shooting that pistol. He makes a lot of excessive movements that slow down him down and decrease accuracy. He might still be very accurate, but that would sacrifice speed. This is especially true for the reload. I wouldn't go to that school for tactical shooting lessons. Maybe that was just a bad example, or I hold my standards for shooting too high.

What is your background with firearms? Critique helps when we know who is making it ;) As for the training in that video I was pretty pleased, I do not have the handgun experience to critique that element of it but the rest looked pretty good. Its a good example of Krav Maga. Much better than what we see in the US.

[Himura]

Well, I'm 22 years old. I had my first firearm at the age of 5 where my dad former Army (6 years) taught me how to shoot. I was also on my high school shooting team. I'd probably be competing as an amateur right now if I had the money to do so. That is one expensive hobby, and I'm pretty poor.

As for my specific complaints about the video I noticed that he turns the pistol to the side in order to pull back the slide, he drops to the ground on the reload for no apparent reason, he also pulls the handgun back towards his body on the reload.

You don't need to turn your handgun gangsta style in order to pull the slide back. He could have left it vertical and not took the time to turn it to the side then back vertical before aiming again. Keeping it vertical can save time on the movement and on aiming since you are still pointing at the target.

The same goes for that bringing the gun in close to the body and squatting down bit. He had the ability to speed reload that clip. Had he kept the pistol on target grabbed the clip with his left had and slammed it back in he could have been pumping more rounds into the targets instead of wasting time. He also took his eyes off target, turned the pistol to the side, and watched as he loaded the clip. You don't need to do any of that stuff especially taking your eyes off target. I mean every time he brings the gun in and take his eyes off target to watch the reload.

That is horrible training. There are some other things that I could nitpick on such as the location of the clips on the belt, but I feel that would be taking it too far. I just tried to hit on basic stuff. I mean yeah he seemed to take a bit too long on getting the clip out for the reload, but I don't expect someone training to be as smooth and practiced as people who have done it most of their lives, or people who do it for competition and/or hunting. It seems dangerous to allow someone who could end up using this training to develop bad habits like this though. Those few seconds could end up getting you or someone else killed.

[HereBeADragon]

Good points and I'd have to agree with most of them but to completely confirm or refute them it would help to know the context of those drills. Thats the problem with all these videos. There might be reasons for what is being done in the video that we are not aware of, it seems strange however that people who do use their weapons under fire regularly would not know how to use them correctly. Or it could simply be a trainee screwing up or a bad teacher, or all of the above. We are only seeing little bits of training and without a bigger picture its hard to tell whats going on. It would help a lot if we had some Israelis around here to clue us in on what Krav is in its motherland.

[gregaquaman]

I tend to lump Krav into the whole RBSD thing. Good addition to allready quality martial arts. That way you can allready punch kick and grapple. And then you learn de escalation use of force and all of those other things that might get missed in the martial arts you are doing.

This way boxers can krav like boxers. Wrestlers can krav like wrestlers and so on. But with a bit of a tactical shift.

Not good if you are not allready a quality fighter because it becomes very hard to tell the shit from clay.

[JudoA]

Well, I'm 22 years old. I had my first firearm at the age of 5 where my dad former Army (6 years) taught me how to shoot. I was also on my high school shooting team. I'd probably be competing as an amateur right now if I had the money to do so. That is one expensive hobby, and I'm pretty poor.

As for my specific complaints about the video I noticed that he turns the pistol to the side in order to pull back the slide, he drops to the ground on the reload for no apparent reason, he also pulls the handgun back towards his body on the reload.

You don't need to turn your handgun gangsta style in order to pull the slide back. He could have left it vertical and not took the time to turn it to the side then back vertical before aiming again. Keeping it vertical can save time on the movement and on aiming since you are still pointing at the target.

The same goes for that bringing the gun in close to the body and squatting down bit. He had the ability to speed reload that clip. Had he kept the pistol on target grabbed the clip with his left had and slammed it back in he could have been pumping more rounds into the targets instead of wasting time. He also took his eyes off target, turned the pistol to the side, and watched as he loaded the clip. You don't need to do any of that stuff especially taking your eyes off target. I mean every time he brings the gun in and take his eyes off target to watch the reload.

That is horrible training. There are some other things that I could nitpick on such as the location of the clips on the belt, but I feel that would be taking it too far. I just tried to hit on basic stuff. I mean yeah he seemed to take a bit too long on getting the clip out for the reload, but I don't expect someone training to be as smooth and practiced as people who have done it most of their lives, or people who do it for competition and/or hunting. It seems dangerous to allow someone who could end up using this training to develop bad habits like this though. Those few seconds could end up getting you or someone else killed.

Not a firearm expert myself but shouldn't it be called a magazine instead of a clip

[Prince Vlad]

I do BJJ with Judo and cross train with Krav. I find it a solid bolt on style which fills in a lot of the blanks that I encountered in combat sports and TMA. Then again, I train in Europe with KMG (Eyal Yanilov's new group) which is probably very different to the type of Krav available in the US. Most of the Expert level guys in Europe have military backgrounds and they are the ones who do the gradings and seminars. My own instructor works in prison and there are other police, military and emergency response guys in the same class (as well as regular Joe's like myself). Just saying, I find it a very useful addition especially when it comes to sparring multiple attackers and 3rd party protection (eg wife and kids). So to answer the OP - no I don't agree that Krav is crap (although I agree that there are a ridiculous number of rip off merchants out there teaching Krav badly or even packaging their own crap off as Krav).