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Can we all just come to an agreement about Krav Maga?

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    I find it easy to believe you didn't read the thread. Oh and [email protected] I always enjoy how a post about MMA immediately brings out RBSD nuts on any forum.

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      Originally posted by Gustard View Post
      I just find it hard to believe that Jews would learn a martial art to defend themselves against fascists in WW2 if it was complete Bullshido. I find it even harder to believe that the IDF would still be using it now if it were useless. Anyway here are two threads on the UK police forum , Trad Jujitsu/BJJ (though they make the point being on the floor is not good for a policeman) seems to be the most popular but Aikido and Krav maga also seem to be viewed favourably :

      http://www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk/inde..._1#entry257710

      http://www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk/inde..._1#entry364829
      Saying what the jews learned to fight the fascists in a war is the same as what weekend warriors learn twice a week in a strip mall is like saying that the tkd that the ancient demigods of korea used to kick armed warriors off their horses is the same as what other weekend warriors do in the same stripmall. which is to say it's uncompromisingly factual and relevant to any discussion.

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        Originally posted by donoraen View Post
        Saying what the jews learned to fight the fascists in a war is the same as what weekend warriors learn twice a week in a strip mall is like saying that the tkd that the ancient demigods of korea used to kick armed warriors off their horses is the same as what other weekend warriors do in the same stripmall. which is to say it's uncompromisingly factual and relevant to any discussion.
        Well I cant argue with that - your logic is infallible.

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          Guys can we stop now? The joke is dead.

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            Originally posted by Gustard View Post
            I just find it hard to believe that Jews would learn a martial art to defend themselves against fascists in WW2 if it was complete Bullshido.
            I don't think you know your World War 2 history very well.
            Here's a hint:
            You'd be much better off studying the martial arts the Americans, British, and Soviets used to defend themselves against the facists in World War 2. The Jews? Not so much.

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              Originally posted by Sirc View Post
              Guys can we stop now? The joke is dead.
              What? You've decided to stop posting?

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                Originally posted by Vince Tortelli View Post
                I don't think you know your World War 2 history very well.
                Here's a hint:
                You'd be much better off studying the martial arts the Americans, British, and Soviets used to defend themselves against the facists in World War 2. The Jews? Not so much.
                You mean The Inglourious Basterds wasn't a documentary!?!

                My whole world is collapsing around me!!!!!!!

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                  Originally posted by Gustard View Post
                  Nah - Im pretty sure if it was completely innefective they wouldnt teach it to the Israeil special forces, Mossad and intelligence operatives around the world.
                  What the hell are you talking about?

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                    I'm pretty sure he is trolling. We have a few old members returning and a few are trolling, as a reintroduction, for some reason.

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                      Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                      I'm pretty sure he is trolling. We have a few old members returning and a few are trolling, as a reintroduction, for some reason.
                      Oh well, I refer to your wisdom in these matters.

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                        Originally posted by King Sleepless View Post
                        And that it is utter bullshit? It's bad karate mixed with bad judo and bad jujutsu.

                        It's supposed to be wrestling + boxing, otherwise known as Pankration developed by a Persian who doesn't like wester europeans then it got to american and became some kind of bizarre "hardcore" angry white boy aikido/karate look-a-like.

                        WHY can't people just get over this?
                        I regularly get attacked by Haters because I have my daughter enrolled at BJJ and I take Kickboxing (for fitness) at a Karate gym and I train in Krav. So, does Krav suck? That would depend on several factors:
                        1. what training facility are you learning from
                        2. how good are your instructors
                        3. who are you fighting

                        Its easy for a purple belt to call Krav stupid because a purple belt can take down most Krav fighters with ease and typically submit them. Its easy for a Boxer to call Krav stupid because the boxer has spent a lifetime dodging punches and dishing out beatings. Its easy for a Judo practitioner to call Krav stupid because again, judo teaches you how to punish on the ground as well as some amazing leverage moves to mess them up standing up. I've been to crap Krav gyms and seen the poor training they give. I've listened to the mindless morons thinking after a week of classes they are equipped to defend themselves from the world. I've heard the nonsense first hand and frankly I am embarrassed for them. So what do I feel? I feel that Krav Maga is a hybrid form meant to give you tools to defend yourself from the average person but that anyone trained well in a respective form like BJJ, Boxing, Judo, MMA will have an advantage inherently because their forms practice the moves while Krav tends not to. Most Krav training goes through the motions but the moves are sloppy and exaggerated not to mention the students are playing along which makes the training even that much more stupid. One example is punching, I watched at a crap gym a student throw a punch so slow I could have made a sandwich and the punch was at air next to the head. Muscle memory is muscle memory and if you practice punching light or at air, you will tend to do so in a real event. Thats the biggest issue I have with most Krav gyms I've seen. However, I have attended a couple schools that DID train better and their training was more realistic. That doesn't mean I defend Krav from the haters in general, just that there are some good gyms out there who train far better than nearly all the rest. When I go to train, everyone knows I train realistically and if you partner with me, I'm not going to tolerate half ass'ing. All the higher levels prefer training with me while the newer people avoid me till they want to test their skills. When I spar, I hit hard and fast and if you don't block, you get hit. If I am kicking and you don't block, you get kicked. I will often pull my punches a little or pull my kicks so as not to cause injury but my instructor and most of the higher levels want to train more realistically. We aren't there to socialize we are there to learn to defend ourselves and we can't do that swinging at air or telegraphing a punch/kick. I also have sparred with members of other gyms to see where my shortcomings are and what I need to work on. When I talked to my daughter's instructors and asked if I could spar with them they welcomed the opportunity and put me against someone about my level to see. It was a great experience because my ground game is no where near the level of someone in BJJ who is of the same level BUT, my standing game was apparently far better. I knew some tools to try and get out of my opponents control but a BJJ practitioner is far better equipped then a Krav fighter on the ground...period. I didn't do any eye gouges or nut shots because I wanted to come back and try again and figured that wouldn't be welcome. I also did the same at my Karate gym and an MMA gym my friend goes to and frankly, everyone is really good about testing out their skills with mine and I value the chance because it tells me what I need to improve. I have gone back a few times to each place and each time I get several volunteers to challenge me because everyone uses it as a learning experience. I haven't gotten any more nonsense about how Krav Sucks from any of them because now they all see that while they may have the skills in their respective fields to dominate me in that area, Krav still provides me with the tools to defend myself and in many cases hold my own. Most of the people I sparred with at BJJ were purple belts who have done BJJ for nearly twice what I have spent training in Krav but again, we don't use it as grounds to mock any form but a great way for everyone to test their skills against a different fighting style. I've even been called up several times and asked to come in as a training exercise for the students. A "What happens when you fight someone who ISN'T a XXX fighter?"

                        I'm not writing this to piss off the haters, they have every reason to hate Krav because I hate so many gyms I've seen for giving such a crappy watered down version of the form its embarrassing. My reason is to simply tell all the haters that yes, Krav has a lot of idiots, a lot of poor training, but once you get past that, and get a good instructor who teaches you well, the training can most definitely benefit you. I am proof that when pitted against someone from another form, that form may dominate Krav like BJJ did but it still isn't to say that the Krav Training is bad, just that BJJ, JJ, or judo is second to none on the ground. If you want the best ground training, you're going to take BJJ or Judo. I won't argue that point, but I didn't want JUST ground, I wanted a more universal technique for ground, standing, weapons, multiple opponents, etc. I've been in real fights and I've encountered all the stuff I've listed so it made sense to me. I'm too old to compete anymore but I still need to defend myself and protect my daughter from idiots so I train and practice my training against multiple other forms to make sure it isn't just lip service. I hope I haven't ruffled the feathers of everyone.

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