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    Originally posted by The Deliverator View Post
    That is what I have read as well. Here is a good historical fiction book about an English Archer:
    http://www.amazon.com/Agincourt-Nove...0725026&sr=8-1
    I've read it. Curiously the actor Robert Hardy is an acknowledged authority on the Longbow.

    Comment


      Originally posted by NoodleGlue View Post
      Here's an example of what I've mentioned previously:
      http://www.eucom.mil/english/fullstory.asp?art={9E2C58C4-0537-4B80-9FB0-3F5B273FC854}

      This is basically detailing how a bunch of Royal Marines wanted to learn some 'deadly' and pointless skills.

      Notice the phrase:


      The latter part is correct, but the first isn't. You just box to demonstrate controlled aggression.

      Now...for comic effect, let's lot at what some of those 'moves' probably look like:
      http://www.apertureninja.com/Action/...00_LZ5xj/Large

      For me, training unarmed combat, like knife fighting and using a bow and arrow (ala Rambo), isn't useful in modern warfare. You really want to go hand to hand with an insurgent with an IED up his arse? It is however, great fun and a wonderful sport.
      One of our students was a Sergeant Royal Marines. He quite liked Trad JJ and though posted to Portsmouth, continues to train.

      That video....Japanese Headlock. Good God Almighty....yes, well, I suppose the leap is a testament to fitness and conditioning...

      Comment


        Are they for real with that jump-on-the-shoulders-then-kill-them technique?

        Comment


          Originally posted by Permalost View Post
          Are they for real with that jump-on-the-shoulders-then-kill-them technique?
          No - thank god. That's just a display team. Displaying what exactly...is a debatable point.

          I love the way that these kind of ninja takedowns completely disregard real world issues - like the inability to scope his buddies from his POV until you're on top of him, the fact he may just randomly turn round, the noise he might make during a takedown, the fact his safety might be off his weapon...

          We take sentries down the same way everyone does. Coordinated strikes from multiple positions using real-time opintel. Failing that, we shoot him in the head and cross our fingers.

          Comment


            [shrugs to self]
            Well, lemme hypothesize for a sec.

            Out of necessity, the BEST Krav Maga practiced by REAL soldiers fighting in the context of a REAL battlefield probably kicks some ass. However, this kind of Krav Maga is also heavily specialized and might make a lot of assumptions that simply aren't useful in a civilian context. Just like kenjitsu worked great for REAL samurai warriors fighting REAL feudal wars, it's simply inapplicable in the context of a modern civilian fistfight. Why? Because, unlike a samurai kenjitsuka, you're straightup unlikely to square off with a swordsman. Furthermore, unlike a military Kravist, you're also unlikely to square off with a terrorist rifleman.

            Therefore, the Krav Maga taught to civilians takes otherwise decent battlefield techniques, places them WAAAY out of context, and makes them seem useless.

            Of course, that's all conjecture.
            And sorry if somebody else already suggested this stuff.
            Just sayin.

            --- Ashkuff | http://www.ashkuff.com

            Comment


              The Krav thread that refuses to die.:happy:

              Therefore, the Krav Maga taught to civilians takes otherwise decent battlefield techniques, places them WAAAY out of context, and makes them seem useless.
              Could you give an example of this? And what are "battlefield techniques"?

              Comment


                Originally posted by NoodleGlue View Post
                I love the way that these kind of ninja takedowns completely disregard real world issues - like the inability to scope his buddies from his POV until you're on top of him, the fact he may just randomly turn round, the noise he might make during a takedown, the fact his safety might be off his weapon...
                My first thought was putting yourself that high above somebody you're attacking is asking to be slammed down onto that deadly ground stuff they're always talking about- rocks, tree stumps, rebar, broken glass, a pile of used condoms etc.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Rzero View Post
                  The Krav thread that refuses to die.:happy:



                  Could you give an example of this? And what are "battlefield techniques"?
                  Well, like I said, this all pretty hypothetical.
                  So forgive me if this is bulls***.

                  But I've heard tell from a Krav friend of mine that some trainers make the mistake of applying rifle disarms to handguns. Obviously, you're more likely to see a rifle in battle and a handgun as a civilian. However, handguns have a much shorter barrel, making it harder to get the same leverage. Thus, this "battlefield" technique just looks silly in a "civilian" context.

                  I've also heard that a few of the kicks become more-or-less effective depending on whether-or-not you're wearing combat boots.

                  Again, this last part is based only on the demo videos I've seen.

                  A lot of Krav appears to assume that you're going waaay on the offensive, and that your opponent is not expecting you to do so. After all, you can get away with lots of cool stuff if you've got the drop on your opponent. However, this mentality is only useful in the context of a battlefield tactical assault. In the context of civilian life, you'll (hopefully) be using your skills for self-defense, not assault. For example, if you start trouble with a guy in a parking lot by jumping on him and breaking his face, you'll go to jail a dozen times over. If the same guy starts trouble with you first, however, then the jumping-face-breaking moves might be okay to execute, but you'll be less likely to pull them off because your opponent will be ready for them.

                  Again, this is all hearsay.

                  --- Ashkuff | http://ashkuff.com | How to venture out of “armchair” scholarship, and into action? One anthropologist tackles occultism, violence, and more! He gets spooked and roughed up a lot.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Permalost View Post
                    My first thought was putting yourself that high above somebody you're attacking is asking to be slammed down onto that deadly ground stuff they're always talking about- rocks, tree stumps, rebar, broken glass, a pile of used condoms etc.
                    I take your point.
                    But, out of curiosity, what about sand?
                    I've been taken down pretty hard on sand, and barely felt it.
                    Maybe the move is more effective fighting in the Middle East?
                    [joke] [laughs out loud]

                    --- Ashkuff | http://ashkuff.com | How to venture out of “armchair” scholarship, and into action? One anthropologist tackles occultism, violence, and more! He gets spooked and roughed up a lot.

                    Comment


                      Never came across any 'battlefield techniques' in Krav myself (IKMF and KMG civilian system) - only ever did a gun technique once and that was at a 3rd party protection seminar hosted by one of the Israeli expert level guys. The only context we've ever trained in is common place assault. Almost all the guys I train with do other styles (boxing, judo, BJJ, MMA, karate etc) including the instructors. Even though I've had good experience with KM (so far) I still don't think anybody should rely entirely on it to defend themselves. It a nice bolt on system for filling in gaps in regular training and it's worthwhile changing your mindset from the mat to other scenarios from time to time.

                      Comment


                        I'm a noob, keep that in mind ;)

                        @Ashkuff: Only kicking Ive been taught so far (three months) are a simple one to the knee. Our teacher doesnt like kicks. Bad for your balance. Knee's during standup grappling are incouraged though. Havent gotten to gun-disarms yet.

                        It's all about the proportionate use of violence. We're taught to block/counter, shove and run the fuck away first if possible. Only when fleeing isnt an option we have to go "all out" and even then its just to incapacitate him. Breaking joints and such are only used as a last resort. But I havent been to other KM schools so mine might be different in that regard. Its more bouncer/policemen orientated. In fact we've got a couple of them training there. Flee, control or disable. That pretty much sums it up.

                        If the same guy starts trouble with you first, however, then the jumping-face-breaking moves might be okay to execute, but you'll be less likely to pull them off because your opponent will be ready for them.
                        True but that's why we spar against resisting opponents who are full aware we're trying to perform a certain technique on them. Also, surprise attacks are normal in KM. Hell I got jumped by 2 guys during class an hour ago.

                        @PrinceVlad: Yeah a lot of guys at my school do other styles as well for the reasons you mentioned.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Ashkuff View Post
                          Well, like I said, this all pretty hypothetical.
                          So forgive me if this is bulls***.

                          But I've heard tell from a Krav friend...

                          I've also heard that a few...

                          Again, this last part is based only on the demo videos I've seen.

                          A lot of Krav appears to assume ...

                          For example,...

                          Again, this is all hearsay.
                          .
                          Hmm, a persuasive point of view. Er, may be not.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Rzero View Post
                            Also, surprise attacks are normal in KM. Hell I got jumped by 2 guys during class an hour ago.
                            Prefacing my comment with the insistence that I'm not being glib, if a fighting art is even remotely effective, shouldn't two guys beat one guy every time when they jump him by surprise? I may not be following the purpose of the drill correctly.

                            Comment


                              No not really. The goal isnt to beat 2 guys. It is to fend them off so I can get out of there.

                              The purpose of the drills is to keep us alert. Someone else could always join the fight. Perhaps a friend of the attacker, or just some drunk. With the surprise attacks we learn not to panic when this happens and to keep an eye out for other attackers while facing an opponent.

                              I do not have the illusion that I can beat 2 or more guys at once, nor is this being taught to me. But I'm pretty sure that in such a situation I can keep the damage to myself to a minimum while creating an opportunity for me to escape.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Rzero View Post
                                The purpose of the drills is to keep us alert. Someone else could always join the fight. Perhaps a friend of the attacker, or just some drunk. With the surprise attacks we learn not to panic when this happens and to keep an eye out for other attackers while facing an opponent.
                                Perhaps you should learn how to be more charming instead. At least that way, all those drunks might join your side of the fight!

                                Comment

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