At what point does a Dojo become a McDojo?

[Fighter49er]

I am recently new to this term of "McDojo", but it doesnt take much to figure out what it means. The old dojo i trained at started off small but since ive left due to schoolk has started to become bigger. What exaclty defines a McDojo?

[milwaukee cop]

hmm, my opinion(and it aint woth much), is when the focus goes away from producing quality( i.e. solid provable self-defense skills, producing champions in contact combat sports, ect) for a fair price, to when it shifts to a shoddy product that panders to peoples ego thru an infite hierarcy of belts, for a bloated unfair price

[augusttheninja]

well really a dojo can become a mcdojo if it becomes too commercial and stuff, and really if it becomes one that doesent mean the techniques get shitty or anything. (unless the techniques do get shitty. then you f*cked.) but really if it becomes a mcdojo it means that they are not as individualized in teaching, and that if you want to get really good, they dont really give a f*ck and their just trying to get their money, and you kinda have to work at it and practice alot on your own, cause theyre not gonna push you to do it.

[Omega Supreme]

hmm, my opinion(and it aint woth much), is when the focus goes away from producing quality( i.e. solid provable self-defense skills, producing champions in contact combat sports, ect) for a fair price, to when it shifts to a shoddy product that panders to peoples ego thru an infite hierarcy of belts, for a bloated unfair price

That about sums it up for me.

[Omega Supreme]

hmm, my opinion(and it aint woth much), is when the focus goes away from producing quality( i.e. solid provable self-defense skills, producing champions in contact combat sports, ect) for a fair price, to when it shifts to a shoddy product that panders to peoples ego thru an infite hierarcy of belts, for a bloated unfair price

That about sums it up for me.

[Vorpal]

To be fair there are some "McDojos" where you can get reasonably decent training.

[Flappyhead]

To be fair there are some "McDojos" where you can get reasonably decent training.

True, however MA newbies(the primary target of McDojos) aren't likely to know the difference between what looks good and what works.

[FriendlyFire]

So I think we can agree for a McDojo, the issues go

1: Quality of training
2: Cost of training

But if the training is good but expensive, is it still a McDojo or just paying for what your getting? And if it is dirt cheap but poor, how does that go?

Personally I feel like McDojo implies a focus on commercialism, and you can also have just expensive or shitty schools that aren't McDojos. Then again no one has really defined the term.

[senseipookie]

- A whole rainbow of belts that are awarded (at a cost, of course) pretty much just for showing up for the right number of classes or the right amount of time
- Black Belt Club, "Special" classes for stuff you should just learn anyway, Demo Team, etc - all at additional cost, of course
- Giving out (selling) of certificates, patches, titles, etc for stuff that should either just be a normal part of training, or has nothing to do with the given MA
- Constant upselling of students
- More effort expended on any of these things instead of good hard training

[Mario915]

- A whole rainbow of belts that are awarded (at a cost, of course) pretty much just for showing up for the right number of classes or the right amount of time
- Black Belt Club, "Special" classes for stuff you should just learn anyway, Demo Team, etc - all at additional cost, of course
- Giving out (selling) of certificates, patches, titles, etc for stuff that should either just be a normal part of training, or has nothing to do with the given MA
- Constant upselling of students
- More effort expended on any of these things instead of good hard training

Yup, that IMO is Mcdojo

[devilboy7778]

To be fair there are some "McDojos" where you can get reasonably decent training.

Would it make it a McDojo then?

A school is a McDojo when they give out belts for time frame and not skill based. If you aren't scared of the higher belts then you might be in a McDojo...

[Fighter49er]

Wow thanks for all the opinions. I hate seeing schools turn to Mcdojo-ism. Fortunetly I have found a place that is the exact opposite of all this, and no matter where i look i have trouble finding another place like it.

[Fighter49er]

I can see where you are coming from when you say that you can get DECENT training, but isnt one of the main concepts behind MA to get the best training?

[BackFistMonkey]

I can see where you are coming from when you say that you can get DECENT training, but isnt one of the main concepts behind MA to get the best training?

No.

If you don't want to compete at the highest level of sport but want to be able learn how to defend yourself why would you go to a World Class TKD joint?

If want to get a basic sense of what it takes to win a street fight go to your local boxing gym.

You want to surprise an untrained thug with some crazy shit you go to your local MMA gym.

If you want to be the best Boxer then you will need the best Boxing gym.

etc...

[Fighter49er]

No.

If you don't want to compete at the highest level of sport but want to be able learn how to defend yourself why would you go to a World Class TKD joint?

If want to get a basic sense of what it takes to win a street fight go to your local boxing gym.

You want to surprise an untrained thug with some crazy shit you go to your local MMA gym.

If you want to be the best Boxer then you will need the best Boxing gym.

etc...

i gues it depends on what your definition of "the best" is really. IMO when i think if the best i think in matters of practicality. Like i know there are some MA schools that in sparring allow no hand strikes to the head. Wouldont that be a key target in a street fight?