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    #31
    Originally posted by Sovvolf View Post
    Bit of a side note but one of the kickboxing gyms I went to did a fight choreography class. Where you're taught a style of kickboxing specifically for movies. It's subtle but you're taught to telegraph, over throw and do other sorts of weird counter intuitive shit on order to sell the punch/kick/block. From what I've heard, a lot of stunt performers for movies specially in the old Chinese theatre circuit we're trained to do similar shit.

    It's fun and it looks like fighting, it even looks kind of bad arse. However it's not fighting and learning it doesn't make you a fighter or a competent combatant.
    As a long-time Martial Arts Instructor, I can tell you that there is very fundamental and essential merit to repetitive motion and choreographed training. If I pull a gun on you, you aren't going to be able to take command of the situation and neutralize or eliminate the threat without a metric ton of repetition, and scripting, and re-scripting and repeating every possible or conceivable or imaginable threat a person might be faced with.

    Your goal is obviously to kick someones ass at a bar, or in front a cute girl maybe, even, and who knows, maybe even join the UFC as the elite group of permanently brain damaged Short-lived fighters.

    In Kenpo, and most Martial Arts, really, scripted scenarios are the UFC equivalent of Shadow Boxing.

    Are you going to tell us that there's no benefit to Shadow Boxing next?

    Even Bag work is all imagination.

    I feel you're just trying to make excuses as to why you get your ass kicked.

    You aren't going to win a knife or gun fight with your bare hands or a knife, or a gun, even, without massive repetition from every conceivable angle of attack and every possible offensive or counter movement you may encounter.

    Is going to the gun range a big laughable fake thing to you as well, tough guy?

    Do you want to fight me with real knives?

    I've honestly never even practiced fighting with a real blade, think you can take me?

    Can you pick up a guitar and play a song, even with the sheet music right in front of you? No, its not sheet music which makes good music, but muscle memory.

    And repeated movements build muscle memory.

    Is someone going to attack you with a knife?

    Do you possess the muscle memory to take on a highly-skilled knife-wielding attacker who has full intent to kill?

    or are you just going to go with your phenomenal instincts?

    You know, I would like nothing more than to take someone straight into advanced Black Belt or Master Level training, but none of the concepts can even be grasped. They have to be built upon, step by step, from White Belt on up.

    In fact, most of Kenpo is heavily scripted, for your own safety as well as others, and so you can actually benefit from knowing what you're doing. That is, of course, until you reach Black Belt and several levels into Black Belt, at which point there is no scripting at all, and your enemies intend to do you real harm, multiple enemies, multiple armed attackers with intent to kill, or as closely as they can simulate using their own imaginings, and you will be able to effectively end your opponents, with really full power and stop just touching the stubble on your freshly shaven throat, and without actually crushing your gonads or poking your eyes out or breaking your neck or limbs. That's just as far as we can go, but in our hearts it's full follow through and death, death everywhere, all day, every day. That's actual Kenpo, were you to be able to get past the stage where your mom drops you off and waves to you during your katas.

    Can you box all these attackers until they are all knocked out? Of course not, this isn't a sport, and no human can physically punch multiple people in the head until knock out, its the most ineffective way of taking on multiple opponents,

    Coincidentally, that's why you don't see multiple opponents in the UFC, nobody has the stamina or wherewithal to do UFC style fighting with multiple people, the thought is absurd.

    you be you, bro, be that Sporty Fighter. stand up for all sporty fighters, and your rights to traumatic brain injury. But don't come around telling the Martial Arts world that Kickboxing and the UFC is somehow better than anything else bud, it's comical.
    Last edited by Tenzen; 10/06/2019 5:57pm, .

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      #32
      Originally posted by Tenzen View Post

      Can you box them all to death until they are knocked out? Of course not, this isn't a sport, and no human can physically punch multiple people in the head until knock out, its the most ineffective way of taking on multiple opponents, with really full power and stop just touching the stubble on your freshly shaven throat, and without actually crushing your gonads or poking your eyes out or breaking your neck or limbs. That's actual Kenpo, were you to be able to get past the stage where your mom drops you off and waves to you during your kata.

      Coincidentally, that's why you don't see multiple opponents in the UFC, nobody has the stamina or wherewithal to do UFC style fighting with multiple people, the thought is absurd.
      Those type of events have been held several times, fool.

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        #33
        Originally posted by Tenzen View Post
        As a long-time LARP-a-doodle-do-er
        Fixed that for you....

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          #34
          Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
          Those type of events have been held several times, fool.

          Perhaps the funniest fight I've ever seen, thanks for the humor. Poland, right?

          That's actually multiple one-on-one fights, "fool".

          Show us the one where the eight guys beat up the one guy, and the one guy knocks them all out.

          Again, that's sport Fighting, If its what turns you on, go with that, I personally can see how that might be a huge turn on, all the sweaty rolling around on the ground with your spandex-laden buttocks in each others faces. It's exhilarating. Is there a nude version? And what exactly happens in the after show? The mind wanders to the naughtiest of places.

          What would that even be called?

          6969696969696969?
          Last edited by Tenzen; 10/06/2019 6:15pm, .

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            #35
            and Larping, btw, is a highly useful technique. Really nowhere else will you see actual battle mechanics played out as they would on a battle field. In the early 90s, before Larping was well known, I played ina group comprised almost entirely of Martial Artists, some exceptionally accomplished.

            Have you ever seen a Kwon Do in action against a Pike or Halberd?

            Have you ever seen the battle Mechanics of the Battle Axe or how people penetrate Shield Defenses?

            We used to have show downs at the bottom of the large abandoned outdoor swimming pool up in the woods, where 2 or more people would face off, or sometimes multiple attackers against one.

            There's nothing like the feeling of seeing a highly skilled Weapons Master wield a Long Spear against multiple swordsmen

            It's really just mind blowing, and some of the best Martial Arts displays I've ever seen.

            have you seen what a Short Sword can do in the hands of someone who's dedicated their lives to learning the lost art of the Short Sword?

            These guys might be termed nerds even, but in the same way Bruce Lee was kind of Nerdy. they studied a lot, could process massive amounts of information and distill that into a useful & practical set of combat skills on the battlefield.

            I don't think there's really anything that exists like that today, but there may be, who knows. People today don't dedicate themselves to weapons like they used to.

            Anyway, LARP is essentially all any Sparring is. Thats because we don't actually want to kill each other, we are all good friends and not psychotic lunatics.

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              #36
              Originally posted by Tenzen View Post

              Show us the one where the eight guys beat up the one guy, and the one guy knocks them all out.
              There are hundreds of video clips of one opponent versus multiple attackers, in empty hand combat, that are not sport fighting.

              In almost cases, where the lone opponent holds out, it is basic boxing and basic kickboxing that allows him to do so.

              Not fancy Kenpo strikes. Not Aikido standing joint locks whether into beautiful Aikido throws or not.

              Not really fancy anything, just basic boxing and/or kickboxing technique, and brutal aggression in delivering those techniques.

              I include ringmanship, or maneuvering oneself to control the terrain choice as one of those basic boxing and kickboxing skills.

              The problem with all of these scenarios, is one trained grappler who clinches and grabs that striker, then ends that ability to deliver the basic boxing and kickboxing techniques, and terrain choice manipulation, that might allow one to hold out on the better end against multiple attackers.


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                #37
                You're not even internally consistent- one minute you're saying punching and kicking isn't real martial arts and the next you're saying how so many people have died from single punches and kicks. You keep bringing up knives as if kempo is even a good knife fighting style.

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                  #38
                  I'm older, tougher yet probably smell better than Tenzen. Cause not dipped in shit. Will show you mine if you'll show me yours.

                  Good work HM.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    TIL that Ke?po is still a thing people do for some reason

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                      #40
                      Ke?po is what happens when the Japanese military appropriates Chinese culture, and then use Americans to slowly water it down to strip mall quality mcdojoism.

                      I'm pretty sure World War II was started in part from the butterfly effect of ke?po.

                      At least Ed Parker had a judo shodan, learned boxing, and engaged with the CMA crowd before stylyzing how own format. And he taught Benny Urquidez and Dan Inosanto, so LARP, nope.

                      Benny the Jet has fought many times using the same hard linear format, Shotokan Kenpo. But of course that format only works in certain rulesets, and with quality cross training.

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                        Ke?po is what happens when the Japanese military appropriates Chinese culture, and then use Americans to slowly water it down to strip mall quality mcdojoism.

                        I'm pretty sure World War II was started in part from the butterfly effect of ke?po.

                        At least Ed Parker had a judo shodan, learned boxing, and engaged with the CMA crowd before stylyzing how own format. And he taught Benny Urquidez and Dan Inosanto, so LARP, nope.

                        Benny the Jet has fought many times using the same hard linear format, Shotokan Kenpo. But of course that format only works in certain rulesets, and with quality cross training.
                        Benny the Jet's mother was a wrestler, and his father was a champion boxer.

                        Benny started competing in boxing at the age of 5.

                        It is true that Benny started training in kids Karate at the age of 7 under a Kenpo stylist.

                        But Benny received his black belt in Karate from his brother Arnold at the age of 14, in Arnold's style of Karate.

                        Arnold's style of Karate, which he founded, was focused on kick boxing competition, and while strongly influenced by the fact that Arnold had been awarded black belts in both Shotokan, and Kenpo, was very much a kick boxing focused approach.

                        And Arnold Urquidez (the older brother, not the father) was himself an avid competitor, unlike Ed Parker.

                        Benny fought in some promotions that Ed Parker was affiliated with, but Ed Parker was a LARPer, and a promoter, and a seller of LARP-fu.

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
                          Those type of events have been held several times, fool.

                          Dang. Sweden got mollywopped!
                          I knew this was a fools game when the Poles stepped into the ring. Like who in their right mind would just volunteer to get rat packed by a whole rugby team?
                          Slavs 1 Geats 0
                          "KURWA!"

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
                            There are hundreds of video clips of one opponent versus multiple attackers, in empty hand combat, that are not sport fighting.

                            In almost cases, where the lone opponent holds out, it is basic boxing and basic kickboxing that allows him to do so.

                            Not fancy Kenpo strikes. Not Aikido standing joint locks whether into beautiful Aikido throws or not.

                            Not really fancy anything, just basic boxing and/or kickboxing technique, and brutal aggression in delivering those techniques.

                            I include ringmanship, or maneuvering oneself to control the terrain choice as one of those basic boxing and kickboxing skills.

                            The problem with all of these scenarios, is one trained grappler who clinches and grabs that striker, then ends that ability to deliver the basic boxing and kickboxing techniques, and terrain choice manipulation, that might allow one to hold out on the better end against multiple attackers.
                            You should host America'as Funniest Home Fighting Videos

                            The First Fight was just a random street skirmish, where people just wanted to hit each other in the head, or simply kinda beat on the other person.

                            You won't find a Mossad or SIS Spec Ops doing that

                            And the second video was one angry drunk guy walking around and punching random unaware drunk dancers in the head.

                            I can sorta see why you fancy him a bad ass, he def won the dance off.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Mr. Machette View Post
                              Dang. Sweden got mollywopped!
                              I knew this was a fools game when the Poles stepped into the ring. Like who in their right mind would just volunteer to get rat packed by a whole rugby team?
                              Slavs 1 Geats 0
                              "KURWA!"
                              Sage advice: Don't fuck with mother-in-laws,Mother Nature or Motherfuking Pollocks.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Permalost View Post
                                You're not even internally consistent- one minute you're saying punching and kicking isn't real martial arts and the next you're saying how so many people have died from single punches and kicks. You keep bringing up knives as if kempo is even a good knife fighting style.


                                Kempo is different from Kenpo tho, for sure, but I hear ya.

                                Those aren't two different things, they're one and the same. You're aptly named, perhaps a little too on the nose though.

                                Punching people in the head and kicking them are sport techniques for entertainment, in what are known as Fighting Sports, many of which are rooted in Martial Arts

                                That's also what angry or internally broken people who want to simply hurt another person do when they get drunk, angry, hurt or offended.

                                And any of those attacks can inadvertently lead to death or permanent disability. In Sport, there are rules which keep people from getting hurt severely, maimed, or killed.

                                Those rules don't apply outside of professional fighting, and can easily lead to accidental death.

                                None of the people throwing those punches is purposely trying to kill the other person, but its happens frequently.

                                The incident I described was one such simple street confrontation, with tricked out cars and all the hot girls watching, etc. The Fight was mutual, both people agreed and were ready for it.

                                My Friend Threw a kick to the head, something went wrong, and he collapsed the guy's esophagus and he died before help arrived.

                                Just two guys out on a weekend night trying to enjoy themselves.

                                And in fact, every time you get in a fight, there's always that possibility.

                                Would you allow me to forcibly open your mouth, take a pair of pliers and start yanking your front teeth out? Yet Permanent Front teeth are one of the most common casualties of street fights.

                                You could break your wrist, you aren't wearing wraps.

                                You don't even have a mouth guard and YOU KNOW FULL WELL the person you are punching doesn't have a mouth guard, and yet you are going to punch him in the face? wtf? You might as well be trying to take a pair of pliers and yank his front teeth out. DO you know what fake implant front teeth are like to live and eat with for the rest of your natural adult life?

                                Worth killing for.

                                Would you allow me take a ball peen hammer and gingerly crush your eyeball? would You mind if I just removed one of your eyes, and you can continue living life with just one eye? Or, may I take both? please? Eye Sight is another thing commonly lost in random drunken brawls.

                                Would you mind if I just expanded your nose in both directions by about a full centimeter? I fancy myself a bit of an amateur plastic surgeon, and do you even care about your face? can I just angle your nose at a 45 degree angle to the left? would you let me do that?

                                Becoming permanently disfigured is a very immediate effect of any fight, even safer ones with referees and rules.

                                Would you mind if I just took a Knife and gave you a Glasgow Smile?

                                You can just as easily receive permanent facial scars from any sort of fight, ones that permanently take away your ability to grow eyebrow hair in that area.

                                In fact, can I just make you look like Dr. Frankenstein's creation for the rest of your life? Would you mind, I'm a pretty a swell guy, you should be honored.

                                You can easily die from Sternum, Heart, vessel and Brain damage & shock in fights.

                                How about your kids? do you mind if I give you a Vasectomy before you've had any?

                                A single fight can take away your ability to propagate and have an heir upon the earth after you're gone from this world, living your life without ever having had a child.

                                Would you let me do that?

                                What about letting me load a gun, blindfold myself, and just start taking shots at you at point blank range, would you be up for it? sound fun to you? That's the kind of chance with death you're taking everytime you get in a random fist fight

                                I'm willing to bet you'd rather see me dead than let me do any of those things.

                                And that's all exactly what you're faced with everytime you get in a fight, like walking into my own personal wet room & laboratory where I can perform any number of sadistic experiments on your face and body, and if you're lucky, let you leave alive, although perhaps not very recognizable to your loved ones.

                                You are facing a life and death situation. you are facing lethal force. Yes, punches and kicks are definitely lethal force.

                                So, when faced with that, is it better to try and out box or out grapple him, or is really better just to shoot him dead?

                                In the State I currently live in, a state with one of the highest gun ownerships in America, It's illegal for you to fight anyone. Illegal for you to even consent to a fight, or agree to a fight, or anything else.

                                If you are faced with the threat of a fight, you can probably shoot them and likely get away with it.

                                So, in Kenpo or Krav Maga or SIS or SEAL or Assassin terms, that means you are essentially justified in killing the other person by other means, if he means you harm.

                                I personally don't agree with private gun ownership, but I have no problem killing you if you want to punch me in the head. I, personally, choose not to use or carry a gun. I'm fairly confident with my skills and it's worth it to me to take my chances, I do value life and feel you at least deserve an Honorable death, one without the use of firearms.

                                I'm all about deescalation, I'll even run away if I can, I'll do really whatever it takes to avoid a confrontation. I'm also not a supporter of Stand Your Ground laws and policies. But I do believe in Martial Arts and defending one's right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, and I'll end anyone who tries to take that away from me. Happiness in my mind means living a life not having been disfigured by a drunken imbecile.

                                But you'll notice I did specifically say Punches to the head. I'm all about Punches to the throat, gonads, xiphoid process, or to certain skeletal weak points. And of course all about any other type of weapon that isn't a firearm. But that's because I have a very specific goal that doesn't include at all what a sport Fighting goal does.
                                Last edited by Tenzen; 10/07/2019 10:35am, .

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