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    #16
    My opinion:

    KM is basically a really really bad, inefficient, worthless Hapkido clone.

    You should try to understand that no MA can really guarantee self defense against multiple people, regardless of what your attackers know. The movies may be cool, but the techniques fall short in the real world.

    I've always viewed KM as the Israeli way of saying, "Look, we have a flashy martial art too!" The problem is that they stole every single technique from other, generally poorly practiced, Martial Arts... Namely Hapkido.

    Granted, any martial art has it's viable techniques... but KM is obviously based on bad techniques. I have not seen one KM demonstration(and I've seen many) that go beyond the scope of even the most mediocre Korean Martial Arts styles.

    Your opponent is what sets the stage, but I strive to go for the gold, myself. Why waste your time on pointlessness when randomness is what you are expecting? With my luck, I will get into a fight with a Judo BB that has recently been practicing Boxing for the last few months.

    OR... I will run into some crazy fuck that's done a lot of drugs that night and doesn't feel shit as far as small joint manipulation.

    In other words, I wanna take somebody down for the count. Maybe his head will hit the pavement really hard in one fell swoop, or maybe his shirt will get ripped the fuck up and he'll get embarrassed about it and fuck off...

    One thing I will give KM, though... the willingness to go for the groin. But, really?... Do you really need Martial Arts to show you how to effectively kick some dude in the nuts?

    Fuck Krav Maga... You're stupid if you pay for it, and even more dumb if you believe it's effective... regardless of who's teaching it.

    Get a firearm/knife, learn Judo/BJJ, and do kickboxing... Krav Maga is absolute shit.

    My EDUCATED opinion. take it or leave it.

    PS... How is my opinion educated, you ask?.. Well... I have a BB in Hapkido, and I have personally been to several seminars in my day where KM people were there, learning the techniques, only to go back to their holes calling it "Krav Maga."

    Krav Maga = Bad Hapkido. If a dude teaches Krav Maga, yet he studies BJJ, Judo, and Kali on the side, then how the hell is that really Krav Maga?

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      #17
      It seems from all the responses that KM in US sucks:5question

      As a former student of a IKMF club in Finland I have few points. Mind you that these are just my experiences with one KM club.

      We were taught that best way to learn to hit is to do boxing, best way to learn grappling is by doing wrestling (meaning in our case sub.), to kick is by doing MT, etc. That's why we had, in addition to our normal instructors, several guest instructors teaching for example MT for few weeks at a time, every now and then. This was of course due to the club having KM, MT, SW & MMA classes, but the principle is from early days of krav. Also we were encouraged to cross train, but this was by no means required. So the krav acted as a kind of a framework to tie different stuff together, and add its own touch here and there (the famous groin shot for example.)

      The defending against multiple attackers was mostly being aware of your surroundings, even when doing something that demanded much of your attention (for example sparring), breaking tunnel vision and running away when odds tipped. There were some exercises that had you pitted against several people, but these were mostly aggression or "guts" training, trying to cope with impossible odds.

      There were drills, yes, but also different levels and types of sparring: boxing style, mma style (meaning punches, kicks, grappling), MT style... and light sparring for warmups etc. There was also often scenario training as a kind of sparring, usually with mma or boxing gloves on: aggressive people, onlookers, people to shield, etc. Typically we sparred in every class.

      What was different from some other places that I have trained in was that there was lower percentage of "athletes" there. There were chubby people, timid people, out-of-shape people, as well as full blown fighters from other styles (several of the MT & MMA guys took KM too). So the atmosphere was more allowing, but it also meant large-ish focus on conditioning. This didn't apply to the advanced classes tho, thanks to the conditioning. Comparing to BJJ that I now train, more people are focused on doing well in competitions etc., and less people are just having a hobby and/or learning self defense.

      I was quite happy training there, but I left because it gave me the spark to focus my training on grappling. During one of our grappling weeks I decided I liked it so much that I'd rather do just that, so I went for a BJJ club instead.

      My advice is to go and try it out, it might be what you are looking for, might not. What I personally liked was the diversity of training.

      Also: long time lurker, not-so-long time poster. Hi all. :XXpig:

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        #18
        Originally posted by Bare graves View Post
        i think judo is the best for woman because there is no real strength needed and if your shorter than your opponent it is easier to get your hips lower than theirs for a throw.
        I think this is a very misleading statement. Yes it is possible to build up an effective game that relies more on skill than strength, and yes, it the judo ideal is that you rely on balance, timing and reading your opponent to make throws happen instead of forcing them, but judo is still a very physical activity and raw strength is always a factor. As a beginner especially, it can be very tough and you're going to take some knocks.

        OK, now for krav. You have to realise that there are two different things that get ragged on here, teaching bullshido and McDojoism. Bullshido is the Bad Thing, it includes lying to people about what they're doing, where it came from, and faking your credentials. It's never acceptable.

        McDojoism on the other hand is doing stuff that's geared towards generating money. This includes long term contracts, making people buy over priced equipment from you, and running kids classes that are essentially day care. This stuff is tolerated, as long as it gets doesn't get in the way of actually teaching effective martial arts.

        Without saying anything about the effectiveness of KM, it does seem to often fall into McDojo territory. I've seen places that make you sign up for a large block of expensive classes, without giving you an opportunity to try it out first, and they have Krav Maga (TM) equipment for sale at a big mark up. They do a lot of hyped up marketing as well, and like to play on peoples fears of being attacked.

        I think you should check out the KM classes, but keep your eyes open, don't just take their marketing spiel at face value, and don't let anyone pressure you into signing any long term contracts until you're sure it's something you want to continue with. (Of course I think this about all martial arts.) I also think you should check out judo, because it's super awesome.

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          #19
          To the op: welcome to Bullshido.
          Next, Everything that crackfox wrote is the truth, period.

          It does seem that Krav-Maga has become sort of shit, and completely mcdojo, which is sad. doesn't mean that this club isn't good, you should check it out and make sure they spar alive.
          You should also check out all the options in your vicinity, and take as many free classes in all of them, that way when you decide, you will have the best idea of what you like and what works for you.
          Also, go here: The actual article: Finding a good martial arts school - No BS MMA and Martial Arts


          Tex, I am not a fan of KM but everything you wrote is wrong. I have no idea what hapkido is supposed to look like. But let me assure you that KM is not that. KM originally was just boxing+judo+wrestling+dirty stuff. what it is now, who really cares, but no, Korea did not invent KM as well.

          Apart, naturally, from the standing rule here that Korea invented everything, including inventing stuff.

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            #20
            Originally posted by elucidare View Post
            I'm a woman btw, not a he.
            In the English language, when gender is ambiguous, the pronoun "he" is used. But thank you for clarifying.

            I don't see anything condescending about what I said to you, but I can see how it may have been interpreted this way. It certainly doesn't mean I 'must unequivocably go do judo' though. Ordering a stranger to go do something sounds quite dominating to me. I like to come to my own conclusions thanks.
            To you I'm simply a piece of text on the internet. I could "order" you just as well as your shopping list.

            I just asked for more reasons behind your stated oppinion than just telling me to 'do judo'. I was being lightly humorous.

            But seriously, do you like being told to go do something when you asked for an oppinion about something else? It's not one of my faves.

            At least the others here have offered solid reasons for their oppinions which I can recognise as reasonable and rational, which could help in the decision making process for me.
            There are more Judo clubs that compete than Krav Maga clubs that get into repeated hostage situations. In a self-defense situation, taking grips and doing a throw is one of the least expected responses to an aggressor.

            (The others being panic, curl up, and punch/kick, but I'm generalizing.)

            Also, as a female, if an attacker grabs onto you, it becomes an ideal situation for a judoka. There are also plenty of judo techniques that deal with being on the ground.

            Overall, it is a superior martial art to Krav Maga with regards to being "on the streetz".

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              #21
              to crackfox
              you need less strength to throw a drunk guy than to knock him out with strikes.
              but your right judo is physical stuff! and im sorry if it was misleading

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                #22
                Originally posted by Bare graves View Post
                to crackfox
                you need less strength to throw a drunk guy than to knock him out with strikes.
                How much less strength?

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                  #23
                  I think you can get away with an 8 str rather a 12. However you need a higher dex.

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                    #24
                    depends on their armour rating and constitution.

                    fair enough ill just shut up save myself from anymore embarrassment

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by elucidare View Post
                      Thankyou for this. I appreciate that you can give me unbiased information, and realistic accounts of some of the fakery that goes on, as someone who trains in KM.

                      Yes, I am female, and what I read on the website was that they have special classes for women and dealing with issues like social conditioning around women having to be 'nice' all the time and the hesitation to hurt someone, even if it is called for in a dangerous scenario, which can obviously result in harm being done. So this is what appealed to me at first glance.

                      I learnt from shizen ryu that it is just as valid to run if the opportunity calls for it, so I'm not looking to be a hero, but if I need to and running isn't an option, then I will do what I have to to survive.

                      I think you're right though, it's best to go and have a look at a class and see for myself if it's right for me. Thanks for the best wishes...much appreciated.
                      I just thought I would comment on one issue here. If you want to get good do not do a girl focused martial art. That is usually another way of saying watered down. This dosent mean you have to find the spittingest fartingest gym in the area but training with guys on an even playing field will increase your skills more quickly.

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                        #26
                        Not specific to Krav but plus one on the staying clear of 100% female based clubs or classes. My missus has learnt some shocking bullshit at 'women's self defence' classes whereas tiny, petit girls I've met at mt clubs are insanly tough, pound for pound from training with guys.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Bare graves View Post
                          depends on their armour rating and constitution.

                          fair enough ill just shut up save myself from anymore embarrassment
                          True, true.

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                            #28
                            ...accidental post

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by elucidare View Post
                              I haven't made a decision yet, but I have checked out the IKMF websites here in Melbourne...and would only go with the official schools if I do. I like that it is not competitive, but purely for survival. Trophies just feed the ego, which can be a persons downfall when it comes to a real fight, IMO.
                              This isn't always correct; it really depends on the rule-set and contact level of the competition in question.

                              I, having trained in Krav for five years, would not hesitate to say that I would much rather be attacked by someone who had trained in most Krav Maga than someone who had trained for the same length of time in Judo, boxing, western wrestling, MMA, of Muay Thai. That said, Krav can give you a lot of skills you won't get from a competative art; this is what cross-training is for.

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