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    #61
    Originally posted by Larus marinus View Post
    So, how long does it typically take to get a black belt in this?
    About five years on average, IIRC.

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      #62
      Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
      These things are mostly done wrong in the TJF, clearly shown mistakes aren't really any better than poorly explained accuracy.
      The TJF balance breaking method is 'assume uke will give it to you', in my experience.
      TJF techniques are not perfect but I would not say that they are all "wrong". Their applications are overly simplistic and are taught using a single method with little variation but the techniques are taught in a technically correct way in terms of uke and toris centres of gravity and the actual mechanics of the techniques. This helped me get a better sense of the technique and how I could perform it on a technical level.

      This is where compliance training can be useful as it allows people who do not pick up things quickly the time to learn the basic technique which MUST then be used in randori to pressure test allowing the student to adapt the basic technique for themselves.

      I found in the judo club I went to they would show a technique you would get five minutes to practise it and then be expected to use it in randori and you would not practice it for another couple of weeks. I subsequently trained at a better judo club which did explain things more clearly but they still could not explain balance breaking very clearly especially against a stronger opponent. I am not saying TJF is a "good" system but it does have some good points.

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        #63
        Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
        Question to the OP, were you ever in any of the higher grade/Purple+ or whatever sessions where, I have often heard it slyly implied, the aliveness gets busted out and people suddenly turn into competent fighters?
        Yes I went to both orange+ and purple+ sessions. I didn't see any super crazy aliveness. I probably should have quit there but hindsight etc. They did more conditioning in the purple+ sessions (shuttle runs at the end). But that was about it.

        At this particular club you could only be put in for your dan grading if you could climb a rope in the dojo only using your arms (no holding on with your legs!).

        I was pretty sure you needed a club for black belt, maybe it's changed or I don't recall properly.

        Originally posted by madmonkey View Post
        TJF techniques are not perfect but I would not say that they are all "wrong". Their applications are overly simplistic and are taught using a single method with little variation but the techniques are taught in a technically correct way in terms of uke and toris centres of gravity and the actual mechanics of the techniques. This helped me get a better sense of the technique and how I could perform it on a technical level.

        This is where compliance training can be useful as it allows people who do not pick up things quickly the time to learn the basic technique which MUST then be used in randori to pressure test allowing the student to adapt the basic technique for themselves.

        I found in the judo club I went to they would show a technique you would get five minutes to practise it and then be expected to use it in randori and you would not practice it for another couple of weeks. I subsequently trained at a better judo club which did explain things more clearly but they still could not explain balance breaking very clearly especially against a stronger opponent. I am not saying TJF is a "good" system but it does have some good points.
        I have also found that teaching is very different to TJF when I go to BJJ, yes you don't get so much time to practice the techniques, and the emphasis is more on the randori/fighting type bit. It will take longer to get better at the technique, but you'll not just know how to do it, but you'll know how to do it against a resisting opponent under pressure (where most people tend to forget things). You also won't have a false sense of security ("Hey I know how to break a guys arm or wrist! How hard am I?").

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          #64
          Originally posted by madmonkey View Post
          I subsequently trained at a better judo club which did explain things more clearly but they still could not explain balance breaking very clearly especially against a stronger opponent. I am not saying TJF is a "good" system but it does have some good points.
          But did any of the balance braking you were shown work for you when you started doing judo? (As you were taught in jitsu, no modifications.)

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            #65
            Originally posted by JudoA View Post
            If you're good at judo you will dominate this competition. Most of the black belts train in other martial arts now, this confuses me because they rate Jitsu so much and then decide to train Judo and BJJ as well. Why not just do those two in the first place?

            The TJF can be considered a base art, because of the concentration on ukemi, you should be safe in cross training other styles. From Aikido to BJJ to Judo to Iaido, and you should have a good vocabulary of Japanese terms, and base techniques that will assist you.

            That is not to say you will not have to retrain bad habits, or overwrite some things. The other BS threads say it is a "jack of all trades" kind of art.

            Afterwards in the pubs they'll hit on the lower grades
            Shouldn't happen.

            JudoA You got your Blue?...If you attended the Assistant Instructors course, you would remember that this topic is dealt with, so by the time practicioners are in charge, this 'hands off" concept should be very clear. Of course it is a big org, and having policies and enforcing them is problematic.

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              #66
              Originally posted by CrackFox View Post
              But did any of the balance braking you were shown work for you when you started doing judo? (As you were taught in jitsu, no modifications.)
              Ha it certainly didn't work for me the brief time I did Judo, which I found somewhat disheartening because I'd realised I'd wasted a lot of time. I knew how to breakfall, to a rather unnecessary level, but that was about it :-/

              Originally posted by KO'd N DOA View Post
              The TJF can be considered a base art, because of the concentration on ukemi, you should be safe in cross training other styles. From Aikido to BJJ to Judo to Iaido, and you should have a good vocabulary of Japanese terms, and base techniques that will assist you.

              That is not to say you will not have to retrain bad habits, or overwrite some things. The other BS threads say it is a "jack of all trades" kind of art.



              Shouldn't happen.

              JudoA You got your Blue?...If you attended the Assistant Instructors course, you would remember that this topic is dealt with, so by the time practicioners are in charge, this 'hands off" concept should be very clear. Of course it is a big org, and having policies and enforcing them is problematic.
              Maybe instead of Jitsu then it should just be called "Fancy Breakfalling"?

              You know, despite getting my light blue, I never went on the assistant instructors course. I'm sure they're meant to have a big file of data with what everyone has done or something, but obviously not.

              I did the first aid course, which was somewhat unnecessary in my opinion as it was a very general first aid course, as opposed to "scenes you're very likely to see on the mat and how to deal with them" which I think would have been more useful.

              I also recall being told on the first aid course that as I had taken the course I was now legally obliged to help someone if I see they're in need of medial help i.e. I actually have to try and help them or I'd get in legal trouble. This can't possibly be true, right? (Not that I wouldn't help someone but I like to think I have a choice.)

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by JudoA
                I knew how to breakfall, to a rather unnecessary level, but that was about it :-/

                Maybe instead of Jitsu then it should just be called "Fancy Breakfalling"?


                TJFB? I rather like it.

                Laws regarding first aid vary, and you should know your rights, however I for one would not want some one to begrudgingly keep me alive because the law said so - and not because he actually wanted me to live.

                There are so many loop holes in the 'risk assessment' of deciding whether to treat first aid, that if you don't want to help, don't help. Sometimes the moral and legal obligations are not the same.

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                  #68
                  Originally posted by JudoA View Post
                  Ha it certainly didn't work for me the brief time I did Judo, which I found somewhat disheartening because I'd realised I'd wasted a lot of time.
                  It's been my experience that there are TJF instructors that can't pull their throws off against resisting beginner opponents.

                  So yeah, I'd like to echo the people that said clear instruction is only useful if what you are instructing is of value.

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                    #69
                    Originally posted by JudoA View Post
                    I did the first aid course, which was somewhat unnecessary in my opinion as it was a very general first aid course, as opposed to "scenes you're very likely to see on the mat and how to deal with them" which I think would have been more useful.

                    I also recall being told on the first aid course that as I had taken the course I was now legally obliged to help someone if I see they're in need of medial help i.e. I actually have to try and help them or I'd get in legal trouble. This can't possibly be true, right? (Not that I wouldn't help someone but I like to think I have a choice.)
                    France and various other European nations have such a law but there's no legal obligation in the UK to help people if you're a first aider.

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                      #70
                      In fact, in the UK you're more likely to get into legal trouble if you try to help someone and cause them injury. Even if you save their life!

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                        #71
                        Originally posted by Asriel View Post
                        In fact, in the UK you're more likely to get into legal trouble if you try to help someone and cause them injury. Even if you save their life!
                        Examples of this actually happening?

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                          #72
                          Originally posted by Kovacs View Post
                          France and various other European nations have such a law but there's no legal obligation in the UK to help people if you're a first aider.
                          I thought so and yet the guy really put an emphasis on it. I mean, I didn't sign anything or take an oath there so I was I being there meaning I was legally obliged to help someone? :cwm10:

                          Another annoying thing (which has been touched on slightly in this thread) was how there actually was variety in the techniques, as everything was taught slightly differently by different instructors. So at gradings, it wasn't uncommon for the grading panel to say to everyone they were doing something wrong, show it "their way", and then making you do that for the rest of the grading.

                          Then in lessons after the grading the regular instructor would go back to teaching it "his/her way". Are you confused? Welcome to TJF!

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                            #73
                            Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
                            Examples of this actually happening?
                            When I did my First Aid training, the instructor said that they had to warn us about the ramifications of attempting first aid on someone and that it is becoming more and more common for people who have, for example, suffered a broken rib during resuscitation to sue the first aider. Don't know whether they actually got anywhere though tbh.

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                              #74
                              Originally posted by Asriel View Post
                              In fact, in the UK you're more likely to get into legal trouble if you try to help someone and cause them injury. Even if you save their life!
                              There have been no cases that I am aware of where the person rendering first aid has been successfully prosecuted for doing do so in court. That is not to say that there haven't been cases where the person saved has tried to sue the first aider.

                              If you are forced to perform chest compressions on a person who is unconscious then you are acting in the preservation of life and it is unlikely that anyone can successfully sue you as most judges and courts would throw out such cases. Chest compressions by their nature involve bruising to tissue and often broken/cracked ribs, it is not the delicate manouver you see on TV shows.

                              If you cause injury through inept or badly applied first aid such as using a tourniquet in the wrong situation then this might be a different situation but still unlikely unless you are seriously incompetent. There is no legal requirement to render first aid although you might be asked to justify it if you are a designated first aider (attending a first aid course does not make you a designated first aider it simply means you have received some training). A designated first aider is someone responsible for it in a a workplace or organisation.

                              As to the "did jitsu balance breaking work for me in judo"
                              The answer is no because in judo you have to grip the gi, are not allowed to strike or grab hair or poke parts of the body. There are variations of gi grips that are used to get the same effects but they are often not legal and are done to gain advantage in competition.
                              Last edited by madmonkey; 8/17/2010 6:23am, .

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by madmonkey View Post
                                As to the "did jitsu balance breaking work for me in judo"
                                The answer is no because in judo you have to grip the gi, are not allowed to strike or grab hair or poke parts of the body. There are variations of gi grips that are used to get the same effects but they are often not legal and are done to gain advantage in competition.
                                Breaking balance with strikes is about 1,000 times harder than TJF makes it seem. Which often boils down to brushing your arm past someone on the way to an improbable technique. If you're training MT now you surely know this?

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