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    Originally posted by JudoA View Post
    (maybe not being smacked in the face, but being thrown about a lot will "build character" surely)
    Judo has lots of kicking and punching ever been on the receiving end of a white belt trying to do de ashi barai with their shin? Or got really stuck in to a brutal randori with dan grades I've been punched, headbutted, smacked in the forehead with an elbow all sorts. Not to mention dirty tricks on the ground...

    Originally posted by JudoA View Post
    And if you end up in court, you do a sport, surely that looks good too, rather then "teh deadly".
    The general public are stupid when it comes to martial arts they all think its 'teh deadly' why do you think people have to come on this board to find out _ing _un doesn't work etc...

    If a court sees you're a 'trained fighter' it could well go worse rather than better for you.

    Originally posted by madmonkey View Post
    Jitsu is a Traditional Japanese Art as is Judo and Karate. You will find all these practices in varying forms within other Japanese arts mainly because the japanese are a very rule based and strict society especially within martial arts.
    Judo is only 122 years old combustion engine cars are older than that. The dead and lost styles of Jujutsu Koryu are 'traditional' Japanese arts what's called 'Jiu jitsu' (sic) or 'Jitsu' (sic) isn't Jujutsu or Koryu.

    Its a mixture of Aikido - 90 years old, Judo, Karate - which isn't even Japanese - and modern western self-defence techniques.

    Jiujitsu (sic) is as about as traditional as my double glazed windows.

    Comment


      Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
      Judo has lots of kicking and punching ever been on the receiving end of a white belt trying to do de ashi barai with their shin? Or got really stuck in to a brutal randori with dan grades I've been punched, headbutted, smacked in the forehead with an elbow all sorts. Not to mention dirty tricks on the ground...
      Then they are not practising good Judo. Judo is a hard sport and yes you do get hit with all parts of the body and it will toughen you up, but this is not the same as receiving a punch off a boxer or kick of a muay thai practitioner or delivering a punch or a kick. Still getting thrown hard can be worse than both if you land badly.

      Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
      If a court sees you're a 'trained fighter' it could well go worse rather than better for you.
      The general public as you say know very little about martial arts so jitsu or judo makes very little difference. Also Jitsu advocates throwing and disarming may be one ground strike then running so hardly "trained warrior"

      Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
      Judo is only 122 years old combustion engine cars are older than that. The dead and lost styles of Jujutsu Koryu are 'traditional' Japanese arts what's called 'Jiu jitsu' (sic) or 'Jitsu' (sic) isn't Jujutsu or Koryu. Its a mixture of Aikido - 90 years old, Judo, Karate - which isn't even Japanese - and modern western self-defence techniques.
      Traditional Martial Arts are generally held to be martial arts that have elements such as kata/forms that have been handed down and are more there as part of the the tradition of the art rather than for practical use. Unless an art like wing chun where they still put a lot of faith in the forms.

      As for Karate not being Japanese, it is Okinawan in origin but guess what Okinawa is part of Japan and most styles of karate have their base in guess where Japan.
      Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
      Jiujitsu (sic) is as about as traditional as my double glazed windows.
      Tradition Dictionary Definition:
      1. The handing down of statements, beliefs, legends, customs, information, etc., from generation to generation, esp. by word of mouth or by practice: a story that has come down to us by popular tradition.
      2. Something that is handed down: the traditions of the Eskimos.
      3. A long-established or inherited way of thinking or acting: The rebellious students wanted to break with tradition.
      4. A continuing pattern of culture beliefs or practices.
      5. A customary or characteristic method or manner: The winner took a victory lap in the usual track tradition.

      A practice does not have to be ancient to be a tradition, eg It is traditional to go to a high school prom in the USA which is a tradition that has been around what may be 50 years.

      So by this definition Jitsu is traditional as it adheres to traditions and a lot of the format of the arts it is derived from eg bowing, judo style clothing and terms and throwing and locking techniques. Hence Jitsu is traditional.

      Comment


        Madmonkey,

        Can you please give me your perspective of TJF on the following issues?

        1. Is it effective - does not have to be more effective, or as effective, as Judo or BJJ or MT.

        2. Is it safer from an injury perspective than Judo or BJJ, assuming I am doing none for competing in tournaments, but just in class?

        3. Does it have lesser chance of skin infections?

        4. I understand it is non-GI?

        Comment


          Originally posted by vulcan75 View Post
          Madmonkey,

          Can you please give me your perspective of TJF on the following issues?

          1. Is it effective - does not have to be more effective, or as effective, as Judo or BJJ or MT
          No as the training is too compliance based to be as effective as these other arts. However I personally found the teaching very clear and I was able to understand the mechanics of the techniques better than I could when they were first explained to me in judo.

          Jitsu also teaches weapons defences which most Muay Thai and Judo clubs don't as they are more focused on striking and throwing respectively. As for BJJ I can't really say having not practised it to any degree.

          [quote=vulcan75;2434902] 2. Is it safer from an injury perspective than Judo or BJJ, assuming I am doing none for competing in tournaments, but just in class?/QUOTE]
          Yes and No. The injuries in judo often come from fighting resisting opponents and from being thrown awkwardly as a result. General injuries are to knees and back as well as ligaments, muscles and tendons which can be weakened or strained. In Jitsu the injuries tend to be from the Ukemi(rolling/breakfalling) as they are very focused on this and practice it a lot with increases in difficulty as you go. The types of injury were similar to judo as the techniques are similar. I got more injuries in Judo as it is harder contact but it does make you more effective at the throws.

          Originally posted by vulcan75 View Post
          3. Does it have lesser chance of skin infections?
          Bit of an odd question... but...both are very hot on personal hygiene so have equal chances of getting a skin infection (unlikely though unless you are very sensitive to such things)

          Originally posted by vulcan75 View Post
          4. I understand it is non-GI?
          No Jitsu uses Gi's as well just less thick ones than Judo.

          I would try both and see which one fits what you want. Just be aware of the weaknesses of both and the fact that Jitsu is not as effective as Muay Thai or Judo in terms of resistance.

          Comment


            Originally posted by madmonkey View Post
            Then they are not practising good Judo. Judo is a hard sport and yes you do get hit with all parts of the body and it will toughen you up, but this is not the same as receiving a punch off a boxer or kick of a muay thai practitioner or delivering a punch or a kick. Still getting thrown hard can be worse than both if you land badly.
            Probably should have put a smiley in there as I was being slightly facetious I have been hit and kicked by some decent Muay Thai practicioners its obviously a lot different and more painful!

            Originally posted by madmonkey View Post
            The general public as you say know very little about martial arts so jitsu or judo makes very little difference. Also Jitsu advocates throwing and disarming may be one ground strike then running so hardly "trained warrior"
            Doesn't really matter what Jitsu (sic) advocates the general public seem to think all MA = teh deadly. So will considered you trained in fighting...

            Originally posted by madmonkey View Post
            Traditional Martial Arts are generally held to be martial arts that have elements such as kata/forms that have been handed down and are more there as part of the the tradition of the art rather than for practical use. Unless an art like wing chun where they still put a lot of faith in the forms.
            Well if you're happy mixing up Gendai budo, which are demonstrably modern with Koryu Jujutsu then thats fine, but most people who have done any studying of the history of Japanese martial arts won't take what you have to say very seriously.

            Originally posted by madmonkey View Post
            As for Karate not being Japanese, it is Okinawan in origin but guess what Okinawa is part of Japan and most styles of karate have their base in guess where Japan.
            And when did Okinawa become part of Japan?

            Originally posted by madmonkey View Post
            A practice does not have to be ancient to be a tradition, eg It is traditional to go to a high school prom in the USA which is a tradition that has been around what may be 50 years.
            I'm more aware of the concept of the 'invention of tradition' than you probably imagine, I have read widely on the subject.

            Originally posted by madmonkey View Post
            So by this definition Jitsu is traditional as it adheres to traditions and a lot of the format of the arts it is derived from eg bowing, judo style clothing and terms and throwing and locking techniques. Hence Jitsu is traditional.
            Only by your self imposed and invented definition of 'traditional', not through any definition that would be accepted by people who study Japanese martial arts.

            Comment


              No, the question is not odd - Do a search on herpes on the forum - BJJ and wrestling, because of grappling have a decent chance of getting ringworm/herpes/Staph/MRSA. There are detailed threads and posts on the forum on these and how to take care from inspection. Judo is less grappling than BJJ, so I assume chances of infection would be somewhat lower, and if Jitsu is less, it would be lesser still.

              Have you seen people practicing ukemi upto from beginners to around a year's experience get any major injuries in Jitsu, from ukemi or anything else? Are injuries to the back serious?

              Comment


                Originally posted by JudoA View Post
                2. Yeah probably it was just when I was very tired after a load of techniques I wanted to go and stand somewhere out the way and tidy myself up.

                3. It was difficult to tell who was the most senior there's a very subtle difference between 2nd and 3rd when I was last there, I didn't know it (as well as the names of the individual instructors, which once I was told would be important for my grading). I never saw many of them as that special.

                I think turning them into an MMA foundation would rock, just don't call it MMA and see how many people turn up to do it :happy3:

                I've always thought Judo was good from a defensive point of view. You're used to pain/discomfort (maybe not being smacked in the face, but being thrown about a lot will "build character" surely) and you can throw a resisting opponent. Plus you'll be fit :toothy10: And if you end up in court, you do a sport, surely that looks good too, rather then "teh deadly".

                I've never really rated TJF self defense moves, maybe you guys have a better idea but someone grabbing you and stuff, I think Judo or BJJ would be the answer. Isn't being taught something rubbish worse than not being taught anything at all?
                When I told my current coach what I'd done before he said that the Jitsu people do good things badly, which is a very neat way of putting it. It urgently needs more sparring and really should turn into MMA with a self defense bias (less extremely technical goundwork, hold onto the weapons, even if it's just for perspective.As you say, something must be better than nothing). I don't know if MMA in the name would attract or repel people.

                If I wanted something to look good in court, it would have to be wrestling. It's got no oriental mystique and (in the UK at least) is no longer associated with professional fighters.

                @MadMonkey: Would the Goshin Jitsu kata also be known as Nage No Kata?

                Comment


                  @Vulcan75: The most likely first year ukeme injuries are strained shoulders. I once strained something scarily spine related (bad bridging, not serious) but the only serious back injury was a girl who landed on her head at a judo nationals (spine boarded off, a long time ago now).

                  I've never her of anyone getting ringworm from jitsu, but if you go no-gi it will happen sooner or later.

                  eta. First year injuries are rare, unless you are unlucky/clumsy.
                  Last edited by BrassMan; 9/02/2010 5:35pm, .

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by BrassMan View Post
                    Would the Goshin Jitsu kata also be known as Nage No Kata?
                    Goshin Jutsu was invented by the Kodokan in 1956 and looks like this:

                    YouTube- Goshin Jutsu Kata

                    Nage no kata:

                    YouTube- Judo Nage No Kata Judo teaching video

                    Comment


                      Has anyone heard of the Fighting Arts Org in London? This looks like a TJF version http://www.faogb.co.uk/

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by vulcan75 View Post
                        Has anyone heard of the Fighting Arts Org in London? This looks like a TJF version http://www.faogb.co.uk/
                        Those guys are Kempo jiu jitsu (sic) allegedly different but they're still pedallig what is basically the same stuff.

                        This video should tell you all you need to know about the school:

                        YouTube- Browne Budo Ryu Kempo Jujitsu Demo


                        Ps.
                        If you think its worth training at, think again...

                        Comment


                          This Kempo Jitsu stuff is great.

                          I learned a new arm bar at the 1:17 mark

                          YouTube- White Tiger Kempo Jujitsu

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Backfistmonkey View Post
                            This Kempo Jitsu stuff is great.

                            I learned a new arm bar at the 1:17 mark
                            Man! That's awesome I've never seen a technique like that before and its amazing how he can do it without any control over uke at all. I have so much to learn, all this time in Judo I have been trying to gain position and control over uke before going for submissions, but its clear I've been mising out on a whole range of techniques!

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
                              Man! That's awesome I've never seen a technique like that before and its amazing how he can do it without any control over uke at all. I have so much to learn, all this time in Judo I have been trying to gain position and control over uke before going for submissions, but its clear I've been mising out on a whole range of techniques!
                              I know!

                              After the last twenty minutes on Youtube I now know I really know nothing about the martial arts.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
                                Those guys are Kempo jiu jitsu (sic) allegedly different but they're still pedallig what is basically the same stuff.

                                This video should tell you all you need to know about the school:

                                YouTube- Browne Budo Ryu Kempo Jujitsu Demo


                                Ps.
                                If you think its worth training at, think again...
                                This is pretty obviously an offshoot of American/Hawaiian Ken/mpo and not so related to TJF's stuff.

                                Comment

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