Have we learnt everything?

[callum828]

This is an idea that I've been thinking a lot about recently. Have we learnt everything there is to learn about martial arts already? What I mean to say is, has recent interaction between styles (specifically through MMA), the white heat of competition and increasing knowledge of science and physiology meant that there is nothing more to discover in martial arts?

For example, Kano codified various schools of Jujitsu into Judo, followed by Gracie codifying ne-waza even further to create BJJ. If we take grappling/groundfighting as an example, is there anything else that can be added? Between BJJ, Grece-Roman wrestling and the other numerous grappling styles, I can't imagine there are many techniques left to 'discover'.

That said, I recognise that I haven't defined 'technique' very well. I mean, the Donahugh turnover, which is a judo turnover from a turtled opponent into an armbar, could be considered a technique. Of course you could also say that it is just a transition into the armbar, which is the 'move'. If it IS considered a technique, then the guy who invented it could be described as adding to martial arts. Still, that's just one variation on an existing move/technique, and nothing compared to all styles that seemed to come into being in the late 19th, early 20th centuries.

It just seems that MMA has brought everything that actually works to the table. I just can't see any style in the future that adds significantly to the accumulated knowledge of the martial arts world.

What does everyone think?

[Hurt]

Two ways to look at it, anything you can do to a person has likely already been done and million times over in the course of human history.

Or, people are still getting better today than they were hundred years ago and we'll likely almost always be seeing some forms of evolution as people learn more and learn more, more quickly.

[callum828]

Two ways to look at it, anything you can do to a person has likely already been done and million times over in the course of human history.

Or, people are still getting better today than they were hundred years ago and we'll likely almost always be seeing some forms of evolution as people learn more and learn more, more quickly.

So we've basically tried all the 'moves', now all we have to do is refine how to best practice them.

I personally think that the last great obstacle for martial arts is getting rid of all the stuff that DOESN'T work. Though I guess that's why this website is here.

[bombom]

Certainly all the moves have been learned, and they are all known to the collective MA community. But the important part, that the techniques must be practiced in an unrehearsed manner against a fully resisting opponent, that is not understood and/or accepted by a very large part of the MA community.

[It is Fake]

I personally think that the last great obstacle for martial arts is getting rid of all the stuff that DOESN'T work. Though I guess that's why this website is here.

No, people need to stop teaching and practicing stuff that doesn't work. As we have seen with fraudulent BJJ, MMA, and Judo teachers it is the students and teachers themselves that are the obstacles. While no art is 100% perfect, many have a very high percentage of workable, usable, easy apply techniques.

[helmutlvx]

I think this thread will quickly go in circles because of three (general) opinions:

#1. The definition of "technique" isn't X it's Y.

#2. Aliveness will weed out low-percentage techniques on its own. (This will be used to justify calling everyone idiots.)

#3. Some kind of t3h anci3nt argument where said MA has no extraneous techniques, but it requires or doesn't have enough alive sparring.

This thread is already a clusterfuck and will become even moreso entangled.

[Larus marinus]

4. People start posting examples of techniques that they believe were recently invented. Other people argue that these techniques are older than dirt and are just called something else in other arts and are rarely practised. No-one agrees with anyone else.

[Dsimon3387]

Ok OP so, if we look at martial arts techniques as a static body, a set of moves perhaps.... but this is a fallicy. Your model is understandable but off.

Martial arts are developed as a response to combat. Combat changes. The principles that apply to combat do not change. No its not like football or MMA because human beings have evolved a lot longer in actual combat, we fight well and almost immediately we adapt to new combat scenerios.

This is what fucks with people. Yes we can take a circular ring, we can give people bigger and smaller gloves, we can make more rounds or no rounds... and under all circumstances people will adapt. Look at boxing for an example: Most boxers today could not last a whole fight, heck most guys could not last 15 rounds but they develop other capacity.

Principles of combat do not change... actual combat environments change constantly. A good martial artist trains properly for what they are prepared to encounter and knows what his/her limitations are

[DCS]

We don't know what we dont't know.

[Dsimon3387]

We don't know what we dont't know.

you keep this up and I will give you a piece of paper double sided with the one side stating what you stated above... and at the end of the sentence the word But... so side one:

We don't know what we don't know, but...

then an arrow indicating the card should be turned and on the other side

we know what we know but.... another arrow at the bottom.

[meat monkey]

you keep this up and I will give you a piece of paper double sided with the one side stating what you stated above... and at the end of the sentence the word But... so side one:

We don't know what we don't know, but...

then an arrow indicating the card should be turned and on the other side

we know what we know but.... another arrow at the bottom.

WTF?

Fairly valid point, we DON'T know what we don't know. Yes, a bit of a given and probably no need to point it out (at least you would hope so), but valid none the less

[Dsimon3387]

WTF?

Fairly valid point, we DON'T know what we don't know. Yes, a bit of a given and probably no need to point it out (at least you would hope so), but valid none the less

I am only joshing. DCS happens to be one of my favorite posters here... so much so that when he tells me I misspelled something I apologize. I couldn't resist! try it out on a retarded friend (the two sided thingy).

[maofas]

I believe there's plenty left to discover, and while MMA is part of that process it's a young process.

When it started a lot of people jumped on the kicks-are-crap bandwagon. Later people decided only high kicks wouldn't work. Then people started getting KTFO on a regular with head kicks, so it was only spinning kicks that don't work, but now we're even seeing people implement some of those.

There's more to come IMO.

[atomicpoet]

Well, assuming that humans will continue to explore space, has anyone invented a form of hand to hand comment that is perfectly suited to a zero gravity environment?

[MMAMickey]

I believe there's plenty left to discover, and while MMA is part of that process it's a young process.

When it started a lot of people jumped on the kicks-are-crap bandwagon. Later people decided only high kicks wouldn't work. Then people started getting KTFO on a regular with head kicks, so it was only spinning kicks that don't work, but now we're even seeing people implement some of those.

There's more to come IMO.

^This.

Essentially there's a set of people who think that if it isn't in the UFC it doesn't work..

a set of people who believe t3h d3adly

and a set of people who couldn't give a shit/still think that martial arts are mystical asian shit.

..people with a realistic and unprejudiced view are few and far between, look how many chun and aikido haters there are on these forums, and compare that with how many people have ever even been to a class let alone know what techniques they use.