What's cool: concealed weapons and military combatives

[TheMightyMcClaw]

So, over the weekend, I was up in Grand Haven shooting more scenes for Atrophy. We now have two fight scenes filmed, by the way, and they're both pretty sweet.
Anyway, while I was on set, I got talking to another guy who does independent films. He was quite impressed by the fight choreography I wrote, and asked me to be the choreographer in a film he's doing next spring.
We got to talking about the fight scenes, and the climatic final battle involves a throwdown between an ex-marine and ex-army guy. This immediately conjured to my mind the various debate threads we've had about MACP vs MCMAP, and I thought it'd be a neat take on the Bloodsport-esque style vs style fight scenes to have the styles in question be the Marine and Army combatives programs.
The other thing he wanted to incorporate into the fight were concealed weapons, and I got the idea of doing a Legendary Weapons of China*-style fight where two seemingly unarmed fighters break out a series of concealable weapons; ASP batons, switch blades, chains, tasers, and so on.
The reason I'm posting this thread is because I want feedback and I want ideas. For those of you who've been in the Army/Marines, I'd like to know what you consider the hallmarks of each program that could be used to make it a clearer style vs style fight.
The other thing I want feedback regarding is the concealed weapons, and what sort of concealed weapons you personally think are cool/underutilized in film. I was also considering throwing some improvised weapons in the mix, and possibly making the theme of the fight "concealed weapons vs improvised weapons."

*If you don't know what I'm talking about, watch this clip, right now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1H4l8cVBgU

[Styygens]

Hmmm... I'll leave the MAC vs MCMAP trademark techniques to the guys who know the systems from training. Concealed weapons to be carried by former military guys... I assume we want some "plausibility" but we're also already assuming the scene's a bit over the top:

Primary handgun
smaller backup piece (It's a movie; I'd use a bit of Gun Kata-like disarming at the beginning to remove these -- or the set-up for the scene has to show them expending all their ammunition already. But I think it would be foolish not to nod at the fact they'd most likely rely on firearms first.)
ASP batons
tactical folders
neck knives
knives in underarm rigs
Push knives concealed either as belt buckles or in the small-of-back
pocket sticks/kubotans
saps
brass knuckles

Weapons improvised on the fly might include belts, car antennas, electrical cords, flashlights(Hmmm? That's an interesting possibility...), beer bottles, sticks in the area...

I see the scene ending with one guy using the webbing from his carry rig for all this hardware to choke out the other guy. Or maybe he uses a zip-tie restraint to choke his opponent.

[Conde Koma]

you can hide knives pretty much anywhere, or in anything.

carbide-tipped pens maybe? or other "normal" objects with some kind of reinforcement.

spray cans are always good as an improvised weapon. even better if it's flammable, yeah?

oh, and there are some crazy hard old dudes that throw quarters through plywood and stuff. we could all use a little change.

[Styygens]

I like the pens idea!

I've also been told to carry pennies around to throw as a distraction... I'm unsure of this when other things are available: salt & pepper shakers, grass, dirt, vaccuum cleaner bags of dust... But, hey, it's a movie.

[bombom]

At one point one of the combatants has to smack the other with a cell phone.

[The_Beak]

A switch-blade cellphone would be pretty cool.

Then there's this thing.

YouTube- Mobile Phone Gun - .22 caliber gun disguised as cell phone

*Cough*sword-cane*Cough*

Better yet have a golden gun type weapon where one guy snaps a pen onto his cellphone to a make a gun.

[DdlR]

Come to think of it, if you could justify it re. script and characters, a detailed hand to hand fight between two skilled men using handheld electric stunguns would be pretty novel. Not so much "shockfights" as the idea of trying to immobilize the other guy (trapping/grappling) long enough to zap him into next week, with the obvious strikes built in as well.

Along those lines, if at least one of the fighters was armored somehow (riot gear or similar) then that would be an interesting and seldom-seen dynamic in a fight scene.

[MMAMickey]

are you seriously suggesting he puts shockfights in a movie? oh dear Zod

[DdlR]

What part of "not so much shockfights" wasn't clear?

[MMAMickey]

the only thing that could make it not so much shockfights is if the fighters weren't poor underpriveliged people fighting for food.. other than that, its shockfights.

[Flail_Crapple]

are you seriously suggesting he puts shockfights in a movie? oh dear Zod

Not that farfetched:

YouTube- Soldier gets hit with a Stun Gun during interview

[DdlR]

Not that farfetched:

YouTube- Soldier gets hit with a Stun Gun during interview

Yep, that's pretty much what I had in mind. The fact that they actually use stun guns in military hand to hand combat training could justify a fight scene in that style, depending on how much discretion the fight choreographer has and what's called for in the script.

For dramatic purposes you'd want to establish that the stun gun(s) are cranked all the way up so that a zap to the neck would really stun the other guy (then you can waste him at your leisure). Of course, you stage the fight scene in shadowy room so the audience can see the sparks. ZZZzzzt!! - very intimidating. The fighters would probably start out at striking range, using the stun guns like daggers, then some standing trapping/grappling, then rolling pretty much as seen in the video.

Can't recall any similar fight scenes ...

[TheMightyMcClaw]

Yep, that's pretty much what I had in mind. The fact that they actually use stun guns in military hand to hand combat training could justify a fight scene in that style, depending on how much discretion the fight choreographer has and what's called for in the script.

For dramatic purposes you'd want to establish that the stun gun(s) are cranked all the way up so that a zap to the neck would really stun the other guy (then you can waste him at your leisure). Of course, you stage the fight scene in shadowy room so the audience can see the sparks. ZZZzzzt!! - very intimidating. The fighters would probably start out at striking range, using the stun guns like daggers, then some standing trapping/grappling, then rolling pretty much as seen in the video.

Can't recall any similar fight scenes ...

That's a pretty cool take, DdlR. The director had some vision of a stun-gun concealed disguised as a cell phone as one of the concealed weapons, and I don't see why we couldn't do a stun-on-stun fight, even if just as a phase of a more elaborate weapon-switching fight.

[DdlR]

I take it that my check is in the mail and that my screen credit will read "Creative Consultant".

(I do this sort of thing for a living. Don't tell anyone.)

[Sempai]

The Army combatives program has a strong emphasis on grappling and chokes. I haven't had any experience with the Marine's program but looking at the manuals I get the impression that they focus on striking and knives.

Trench fighting, using bayonets or whatever is handy, appears to be pretty common between the two services.

The "fight philosophy" taught by the Army program is:

1. Close the distance
2. Achieve a dominant position
3. Finish the fight

Hopefully there's a Marine out there that can give you some more insight into their system.