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    #16
    Originally posted by WhiteShark
    At 20 I was workingout super hard 5-days a week Muay Thai. I was able to get pass out drunk the night before and then show up and train hard. It takes about 3 days before I feel right if I try that crap 12 years later. So yeah it's because you're 20. :)

    I will be 32 in Aug and it is the same for me. When I was 20 I could drink all night, get up at 6am, go work all day, then train for 3+ hours at night and feel fine. Leave off the rest, if I get drunk, I feel like crap for two days.
    Later,
    Zyph

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by WhiteShark
      I'm buying a bottle of NO supplement pretty soon. As I get older (32 in a month) I definately notice increased recovery time and if I can cut that back even a tiny bit it would be helpful. I'm a born skeptic and almost never supplement so I'll report anything I notice. Going into it I expect nothing.
      PM me if/when you start taking it. I've been considering taking NO as of late, but I'm not sure on the dosing, which brand is generally considered highest quality, etc. I've searched around a little, but haven't found a whole lot.
      "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

      Comment


        #18
        Regarding NO brands, I like Nitrix. 3 tablets 3 times a day for pple under 200lbs, and 4 tablets 3 times a day for pple over 200lbs. I take about 7, 2 x 3 and 1 before going to bed - I pop some many caps a day, BCAA, tribulus, multis, glutamine, ginseng, joint shit and saw palmetto, I can't take more pills.)

        I works great if you follow the prescribed dossage as close as possible. I know people who buy NO supplements but then just take a fraction of it (to save $$$) that they don't see any benefits and give up (cheap-fu.)

        If you invest in supplements, use them well and as directed, and with a good diet (and ideally glutamine.) Otherwise, it becomes a waste of money. I'd suggest to prioritize glutamine first and NO (and BCAAs) second.

        Another thing I've observed with NO is that you get a "pump", a nice increase in energy when lifting, BUT after 3 weeks it kinda wears off, so I take it for 3 weeks and off for 2 weeks. That's my personal experience; other pple may not experience the same.

        As for creatine, that shit rocks. It truly helps. Unfortunately, my stomach can't handle it (some people seem sensitive to it.) I have a friend who's a dedicated bodybuilder. She has said that using both creatine and NO is a waste of $$$ since both have a similar effect in energy and recovery. Either one or the other (again, that's her personal annecdote.)
        Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

        My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

        New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

        t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

        The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

        Comment


          #19
          [quote=Cassius]PM me if/when you start taking it. I've been considering taking NO as of late, but I'm not sure on the dosing, which brand is generally considered highest quality, etc. I've searched around a little, but haven't found a whole lot.[/quot]

          I am a big fan of Biogenetix. They just have better chemistry involved. They have bound the molecules to a fatty acid to make them more permeable to the cell wall. They also have the D2T chemical that allows for better time release, and half life in the blood, and their coating gets it past the stomach and to the intestine where it absorbs better. It is 6 tabs once a day two hours before working out.



          El Macho, mind if I ask how old you are, I am 31 going on 32? I take Nettle root for prostate health, and like it a bit better than I did the saw palmetto, it also has shown to promote an increase in testosterone productions.

          I also pop multivitamins and Hydroxycut every day. Paramedicine, and a surgery I had year before last put some fat on I am struggling to get off.


          Later,
          Zyph

          Comment


            #20
            Creatine and N02 would be fine for a 15 year old.
            WTF...

            There has never been a documented study showing Creatine having any sort of mood altering capacities meaning you're either an idiot or a liar.


            Creatine Phosphate is a compound in the body that helps to replenish ATP stores when they are used and exhausted through high intensity activities. It gives the body another shot at completing those activities rather than just completely failing until ATP has completely regenerated. It's safe for a 15 year old. It occurs naturally in the body and in red meat.

            NO2 is a Vaso as it's already been said. Also safe for a 15 year old. It's not going to have any sort of long term effects. The things to be noted however is that it does cause higher rates of inflammation as increased blood flow for the purpose of regenerating tissues is in itself is inflammation.

            Speaking of inflammation. My arms and face are on fire from a use of force incident tonight that has left me with one less uniform as it looks like I rolled around in red paint. =-)
            Last edited by Equipoise; 6/29/2007 9:34pm, .
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGXiN-_BCts

            Numa ^ 3

            Comment


              #21
              No I am saying how creatine affected me. And if you had any medical training you would have been told that supplements are bad for those still in physical development. The same reason certain meds are not prescribed to them. As I said I went to school to at least study a semblance of medicine.

              One reason alone is that any supplement puts undue stress on the kidneys. We are talking about a child here whose kidneys are still growing. The addition of creatine is going to cause massive stress on those kidneys, because of the filtration needed to pull the excess out of the blood. Couple that with what the kid probably drinks (soda of some kind) and that are just more havoc on his kidneys.

              NO2 is on the same lines, except we are also talking about the possible alteration of BP. It is the same reason healthy people should not take Viagra for fun. Too much alteration in BP can cause unctuousness or death at extremes. NO does not have the same extreme alteration properties as say Nitro or Viagra, but there is still some. You can NOT vasodilate WITHOUT some change in BP.

              Human BP is based on two things the size of the container (your veins, arteries, capillaries, and veinuals) or the fluid in the container (how much blood you have.)

              In children these things are somewhat in flux because of growth and hormones. Other things like caffeine certain foods, vitamins, even hot/cold can cause even more changes.

              Now despite you first statement being shitty, I will say I know how you feel about the uniform. There were many days that I came with puke, blood, or I hate to say it shit on my uniform. All of which shows up real well on my neon green shirt with EMS written on the back in glowing letters. Those days I just tended to undress on my front porch so my kids would not be exposed to the biohazard that I had worn for 24 hours.

              Hey can a get a Paramedic tag at the top of my name?
              Later,
              Zyph
              Last edited by Zyph; 6/30/2007 7:21am, .

              Comment


                #22
                You have to prove you're an EMT for the tag.

                As long as fluid intake matches that of the creatine intake, there will be no problem. I do have training in this area. I'll also have my nutritionist's license in two weeks. The problems with the kidneys that you mentioned can happen regardless of creatine intake. It could happen with an improper diet of too much/too little of a micro/macronutrient. I work with EMT's everyday, they know squat about nutrition as do most doctor's.

                As with any supplementation, some thought should go in to whether or not one is healthy enough to take such said item. A high school age athlete would benefit from both Creatine as well as N02. If blood pressure is going to be an issue, then the person should not be participating in activities involving a lot of exertion regardless.

                These and other supplements won't have any long term or lasting effect that can damage a teenager's growth plates, or body systems. They're not prohormones or steroids.
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGXiN-_BCts

                Numa ^ 3

                Comment


                  #23
                  With an adult I would agree, and I see no need for use to turn this in to a huge debate. Congratz on furthering you education by becoming a nutritionist, lnowledge makes all grow in good ways.

                  The back of the bottles for the NO I have and the Creatine both has the same warning label.

                  Keep out of reach of children. Do not use if pregnant or nursing. Not intended for use by persons under 18. Consult a physician if you have been treated for or diagnosed with, or have a family history of any medical condition. Use only as directed. Do not exceed recommended serving as improper use of this product does not enhance results. Do not use if safety seal on this package has been broken. Store in a cool dry place.


                  That was directly from the creatin bottle.



                  Their physiology is still developing, and there are health conditions that may have still not surfaced. Neither of us has a medical history work up on him, but one source does. His Doctor. So my final word on this is he should see his doc before starting any supplement, especially one that says it is not intended for any one under 18.

                  As for proving my certs, I will do it, can you tell me how?
                  Later,
                  Zyph
                  Last edited by Zyph; 7/01/2007 4:54pm, .

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Equipoise
                    Creatine and N02 would be fine for a 15 year old.


                    WTF...

                    There has never been a documented study showing Creatine having any sort of mood altering capacities meaning you're either an idiot or a liar.


                    Creatine Phosphate is a compound in the body that helps to replenish ATP stores when they are used and exhausted through high intensity activities. It gives the body another shot at completing those activities rather than just completely failing until ATP has completely regenerated. It's safe for a 15 year old. It occurs naturally in the body and in red meat.

                    NO2 is a Vaso as it's already been said. Also safe for a 15 year old. It's not going to have any sort of long term effects. The things to be noted however is that it does cause higher rates of inflammation as increased blood flow for the purpose of regenerating tissues is in itself is inflammation.

                    Speaking of inflammation. My arms and face are on fire from a use of force incident tonight that has left me with one less uniform as it looks like I rolled around in red paint. =-)
                    BJJ wins again!
                    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

                    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

                    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

                    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

                    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Zyph
                      The back of the bottles for the NO I have and the Creatine both has the same warning label.



                      That was directly from the creatin bottle.


                      That means sod-all, to be honest. There are millions of labels on such products which are basically there as mini-disclaimers. One of my antiperspirants states that the product should NEVER be sparayed anywhere other than the underarm area. I've sprayed it in other areas and am still alive today.

                      I've seen tubs of creatine stating that no more than 5g should be taken daily. On others, I've seen that a loading dose of 20g (4x5g) daily should be used for X number of weeks. I think another important reasonfor the "warning" is that a kid is more likely to take a massive overdose (whether for a joke, to try and see improved results etc.) which could result in problems. As has already been stated, creatine is a compound already present in the body. It is present in a number of foodstuffs. Surely denying creatine to children is the same as denying vitamin C.

                      Creatine allows increased anaerobic fitness and hence strength gains as it aids recovery. If anything harms the child's development it will be the lifting of heavy weights, not the actual supplementation of creatine.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        But the difference between denying a kid creatine as compared to Vitamin C is that when supplementing creatine I have read that the body stops producing its own creatine. I read normally we get some creatine from food and if the body needs more it makes it. Something like the body needs 2g a day or someting (for normal functioning) so if it gets 1g from food it makes 1g itself, if it gets 2g from food it makes none.

                        I don't think that is the case with Vitamin C. In adults no problem has been seen so far that I know f but no studies are done on kids that I know of.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by LI GUY 1
                          But the difference between denying a kid creatine as compared to Vitamin C is that when supplementing creatine I have read that the body stops producing its own creatine. I read normally we get some creatine from food and if the body needs more it makes it. Something like the body needs 2g a day or someting (for normal functioning) so if it gets 1g from food it makes 1g itself, if it gets 2g from food it makes none.

                          I don't think that is the case with Vitamin C. In adults no problem has been seen so far that I know f but no studies are done on kids that I know of.
                          Your body won't stop producing Creatine. That loading and unloading phase is crap; marketing scheme. The companies that produce all of the expensive supplements want to give the impression that Creatine is a potent anabolic agent and therefore must be cycled like one in order to prevent a feedback loop like there is between Estrogen and Test.

                          Vitamins also say keep out of the reach of children. This is prevent any possible harmful interaction where a child would not know what to do in case they were having one. Most high school kids would recognize an allergic reaction and be around others or have the ability themselves to dial 911.
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGXiN-_BCts

                          Numa ^ 3

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Dangers of Creatine for Teens

                            http://www.glencoe.com/sec/health/up...ing02_06.shtml


                            http://preventdisease.com/news/artic...nd_teens.shtml


                            http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/per...-drugs/SM00045


                            http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/creatine-000297.htm

                            These are just the top results.

                            The parent should do the research and decide for themselves after consulting a doctor. Just the ones I posted show that the use of any enhancing substance is bad for those still growing and that we do not know the long term affects of these products, or their long term affects on teens/those still growing.

                            The research just has not been done yet. Safety first, and do no harm are what I choose to go with when dealing with children. I would not give these supplements to my children, of which I have 3 and one on the way, I would also never suggest another parent to do so.

                            If more studies are done by medical professionals, not supplement companies, and my views are proven wrong I will retract my statements. Until then I will go with them not being safe for adolescents.

                            I also ask again what needs to be done to prove my credentials as a medic.
                            Later,
                            Zyph

                            Comment


                              #29
                              The parent should do the research and decide for themselves after consulting a doctor.
                              WIN! If my kid told me that people on the internet said it was ok for him to take creatine I'd laugh in his face.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                I'm having trouble finding any good science on Nitric Oxide supplementation. All of the clinical tests are done with inhaled gaseous Nitric Oxide. All the supplements seem to do the same thing and just include vitamin b12 and L-Arginine both of which stimulate Nitric Oxide production int he body.

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