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Let's Discuss Veganism and Why It's Retarded

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    Originally posted by heyjudek View Post

    I am really hoping that the majority of people here do not have anti-science tendencies. The only thing that was remotely close to being a "declarative statement" I have made was that there are many reasons not to eat meat (mainly environmental and ethical ones)
    You made two posts. The first post was your claim. The second post was where your "few" declarative statements appear.

    Anyone who has a basic understanding of science should already be aware that eating lower on the food chain (plants vs herbivores vs carnivores) is exponentially more efficient than eating higher.
    For those who didn't know: According to the laws of thermodynamics, energy transfer can never be 100%. Usually, it is much lower. For example, when a cow is eating 1000 calories worth of food, only a small portion of those calories will be stored as biomass. Most of it will be used for metabolism, body heat and other bodily needs.
    In ecology, this is called the "10% rule", which states that as you go up the food chain, only 10% of the energy (in general) is stored as biomass. This is what I meant by inefficiency.

    In any case, I am more than happy providing verifiable claims.
    https://www.wri.org/blog/2016/04/sus...know-12-charts

    Animal-based foods are generally more resource-intensive and environmentally impactful to produce than plant-based foods.[/h]
    Beef production requires 20 times more land and emits 20 times more greenhouse gas emissions per unit of edible protein than common plant-based protein sources such as beans, peas and lentils. Chicken and pork are more resource-efficient than beef, but still require three times more land and emit three times more greenhouse gas emissions than beans. When it comes to resource use and environmental impacts, the type of food eaten matters as much, if not more, than how that food is produced.

    I hope this helped clarify what I meant earlier. By the way, stating what is already obvious doesn't mean I am making claims.
    Please let me know if you have further concerns :)



    You have now backed up your "fact" with "verifiable" proof to support your "claim."

    Well done.


    Comment


      Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
      You made two posts. The first post was your claim. The second post was where your "few" declarative statements appear.


      You have now backed up your "fact" with "verifiable" proof to support your "claim."

      Well done.

      Thank you, I hope my position on this now seems clear ;)

      Comment


        Originally posted by heyjudek View Post

        Thank you, I hope my position on this now seems clear ;)
        Great job.

        Still, you'd be pretty screwed in the middle of winter with nothing but a vegetable diet, unless you'd stocked up months in advance and preserved them properly. Which can be done, if you know what to do.

        I'm guessing you've never had to kill your food?

        Comment


          You mean in a post-apocalyptic world? Because I have a heater, shelter, warm clothing to keep me warm during winter....

          heyjudek - keep posting :) nice to have a new voice on the thread and site.
          "I'm reluctant to sound like a total fa66ot as well, but my background in sculpture gave me an edge in understanding how we're expected to move thru space." - The Other Other Serge

          Comment


            I am an open mocker of vegans and have been for several years.

            During my campaign I have been exposed to many of their arguments.

            Some of those were turds but some have resulted in my reduction of meat consumption and my being more selective about where the meat I eat comes from and how it is produced.

            Life is about the pursue of joy and happiness and meat certainly plays a part in that as far as my life is concerned but I think humans have been a bit bat shit with meat in the same way were were pollution during the earlier industrial years.

            A more sensible and ethical approach to meat consumption for a variety of reasons is the answer not the elimination of it.

            King without a crown

            Comment


              Originally posted by Lily View Post
              You mean in a post-apocalyptic world? Because I have a heater, shelter, warm clothing to keep me warm during winter....

              heyjudek - keep posting :) nice to have a new voice on the thread and site.
              A decent garden and tinfoil is all you need to make a winter-long supply of frozen TV dinners complete with desert.

              That's how my grandmother rolled, she was almost entirely self sufficient and never went grocery shopping. Of course it meant I had to learn to enjoy rhubarb pie, but the butternut squash pudding was amazing.

              Comment


                All great arguments but the truth is that beef stroganov kicks ass. Wellington kicks ass. Steak tar tar kicks ass.

                BBQ ribs kick ass. Popeye's extra spicy chicken kicks ass (if your local franchise sells it). Lots of things that taste great are bad for you but only if you eat that shit every day. Treat yourself once in a while but eat healthy when you don't need a treat. Hint: You don't need a treat every day you soft doughy fucks.
                "Pave the way for the little guy, Caligula!" Harry Solomon, September 28, 1999

                Comment


                  Overlord Phrost - may I observe that your thread title has always made me slightly uncomfortable? I can see you feel very strongly about the topic, but it doesn’t allow for objective commentary from the get go.

                  Please don’t execute me.
                  "I'm reluctant to sound like a total fa66ot as well, but my background in sculpture gave me an edge in understanding how we're expected to move thru space." - The Other Other Serge

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Lily View Post
                    Overlord Phrost - may I observe that your thread title has always made me slightly uncomfortable? I can see you feel very strongly about the topic, but it doesn’t allow for objective commentary from the get go.

                    Please don’t execute me.
                    I think that's the purpose. He's trying to be inflammatory and is aware of that.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post

                      Great job.

                      Still, you'd be pretty screwed in the middle of winter with nothing but a vegetable diet, unless you'd stocked up months in advance and preserved them properly. Which can be done, if you know what to do.

                      I'm guessing you've never had to kill your food?
                      Based on what have you concluded that I'd be screwed in the middle of winter on a vegetable diet, if I may ask?
                      Where I am living, I have access to staple plant crops such as legumes, cereals, some fruit, vegetables (both fresh and canned) and more. So, I see no reason why I would be screwed. My current diet supplies me enough calories, fat, protein, vitamins and minerals I need.
                      And yes, I never had to kill for my food. Obviously if I lived in an area where I had to eat meat to survive, it would be a different story, but for most of the developed world, we have the option to forgo this. Chances are, if you have access to internet, you will have access to more than enough quality vegetables to not have to kill for food. Hope that helps.


                      Originally posted by Lily View Post
                      You mean in a post-apocalyptic world? Because I have a heater, shelter, warm clothing to keep me warm during winter....

                      heyjudek - keep posting :) nice to have a new voice on the thread and site.
                      Thank you, I'll try :)
                      Last edited by heyjudek; 2/24/2020 4:40pm, .

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by heyjudek View Post

                        Based on what have you concluded that I'd be screwed in the middle of winter on a vegetable diet, if I may ask?
                        Where I am living, I have access to staple plant crops such as legumes, cereals, some fruit, vegetables (both fresh and canned) and more. So, I see no reason why I would be screwed. My current diet supplies me enough calories, fat, protein, vitamins and minerals I need.
                        And yes, I never had to kill for my food. Obviously if I lived in an area where I had to eat meat to survive, it would be a different story, but for most of the developed world, we have the option to forgo this. Hope that helps. Chances are, if you have access to internet, you will have access to more than enough quality food to not have to kill for food.
                        The conditional "unless" was a big giveaway. Point being your macrostats about meat vs. veg efficiency are all well and good until you have nothing to eat and didn't properly stock up on frozen TV dinners. Little things people take for granted like electricity, gas, light...can go away as fast as a light switch. That includes food and fresh water, making finding and killing an animal your best and possibly last chance to live another week or so.

                        This is a No Atheists in Foxholes argument. There are no Vegans in a Survival Situation. Ideology. You may just have to eat a rabbit or two even in 2020, if conditions are right. The number of conditions required to purchase, store, and maintain food are numerous. All a place has to do to start on the path towards danger is to lose electricity. This is where the Vegone/VP zealotry breaks down quickly.

                        What's the longest you've ever gone without electricity in a crisis? Food goes bad pretty damn fast.
                        Last edited by W. Rabbit; 2/24/2020 4:51pm, .

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                          Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                          What's the longest you've ever gone without electricity in a crisis? Food goes bad pretty damn fast.
                          Hey, is the title of this thread, “Let’s discuss veganism in a time without power and water”?

                          No? Then how about you shut the fuck up about off topic drivel.

                          I’d like to point out that your argument is based upon more fearmongering.

                          “Durr, but what would you do if it was the apocalypse?”

                          Shut the hell up and train.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by jnp View Post
                            Hey, is the title of this thread, “Let’s discuss veganism in a time without power and water”?

                            No? Then how about you shut the fuck up about off topic drivel.

                            I’d like to point out that your argument is based upon more fearmongering.

                            “Durr, but what would you do if it was the apocalypse?”
                            "Retaaaaahded" is how I hear the thread title, Chelsea style.

                            It doesn't hurt to plan for a crisis where you can't get access to vegetables, a seasonal commodity. Some of us here know how to find and eat bugs if we have to. What does a Vegone or their VP Overlords have to say about that?

                            There is an ideological extreme side of veganism, and a practical one. Definitely on topic to discuss the variance between the two.

                            Vegans are, by definition, non-hunters. That puts them at a distinct disadvantage throughout most of human history, and assuming they can maintain such a diet in the face of adversity...definitely on topic.

                            Comment


                              You want to hear a joke?

                              A Vegone once tried to use Matt Damon's The Martian as an example of how a person could survive for a long time with just vegetables.

                              A science fiction movie.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post

                                The conditional "unless" was a big giveaway. Point being your macrostats about meat vs. veg efficiency are all well and good until you have nothing to eat and didn't properly stock up on frozen TV dinners. Little things people take for granted like electricity, gas, light...can go away as fast as a light switch. That includes food and fresh water, making finding and killing an animal your best and possibly last chance to live another week or so.

                                This is a No Atheists in Foxholes argument. There are no Vegans in a Survival Situation. Ideology. You may just have to eat a rabbit or two even in 2020, if conditions are right. The number of conditions required to purchase, store, and maintain food are numerous. All a place has to do to start on the path towards danger is to lose electricity. This is where the Vegone/VP zealotry breaks down quickly.

                                What's the longest you've ever gone without electricity in a crisis? Food goes bad pretty damn fast.
                                UNTIL I have nothing to eat. By your logic, if you have nothing to eat, you would probably eat your dog, does that mean you should do it NOW because you would have done so IF you had nothing left?
                                Those things that we take granted like "electricity, gas, light, etc." would affect meat production much more. Plants being lower on the food chain is much more efficient to produce, if there are not enough resources to produce plants, then there sure as hell aren't gonna be enough resources to have meat.
                                Thermodynamics, meat production is inherently dependent on the availability of plants. No plants, no meat.

                                Your entire point breaks down to the obvious that IF I had nothing else to eat, I would eat meat, which I already acknowledged.
                                Most of my food is non-perishable. And again, FOOD goes pretty damn fast, which applies to meats much more than anything else.
                                In short, I am not gonna waste my money on meat just because I would eat it IF it was my last resort.
                                By that logic, I should start resorting to eating almost anything else that can potentially be eaten.
                                Unless I misunderstood your point, feel free to elaborate, but right now it sounds like something I have heard hundreds of times before.

                                So, yes I would eat meat if I was forced to. I would also scavenge on anything else if I was forced to. I don't see your point.
                                Worried about crisis? Stock up on legumes and canned vegetables. They last pretty much indefinitely.
                                Last edited by heyjudek; 2/24/2020 8:14pm, .

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