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    Aesthetic training

    Okay, so I have a knee injury and am going to train purely for aesthetics as squats are out, plus I wouldn't mind looking like the beast I once was as a youth. I haven't trained purely for muscle growth since I was young, so I'm just looking for any advice on a program to build muscle in a short amount of time.

    I am thinking along the lines of 50-60% of my maximum:

    Bench press 4x10 then 1xF

    Overhead press 4x10 then 1xF

    Bicep curls 4x10 then 1xF

    Hammer curls 4x10 then 1xF

    Tricep pulldown 4x10 then 1xF

    Dumbell wings 4x10 then 1xF

    Light light light deadlift 3x10

    I seriously and humbly ask for advice. The bodybuilding routines I learnt were from my dad, who did bodybuilding in the late 60's and 70's which I have slightly modified from my experiences in the gym and reading threads here.

    The low weight high rep thing is usually to get size, isn't it? (there is a thread on here recently regarding this, I'll check it out, in the meantime, please consider it in regards to my above program)

    Are there anymore exercises you can suggest?

    Should I modify the repetitions, sets?
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
    Originally posted by Devil
    I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
    Originally posted by BackFistMonkey
    I <3 Battlefields...

    #2
    What kind of knee injury do you have?

    That's not really a routine for aesthetics, just kind of a laundry list of exercises. Mass training is highly dependent on programming rather than just movements and sets/reps, where rest periods are key along with principles like rest pausing and volume manipulation. Depending on your injury, you may be able to follow certain programs effectively.

    Comment


      #3
      Sweet, as I said, I'm not up with the current training methods for this type so any program that builds bulk quickly you can recommend would be good.

      My knee is fine as long as it stays at a relatively obtuse angle. I still haven't had it checked out because I don't have insurance and a specialist is going to cost a bit, which I also don't have.
      GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
      Originally posted by Devil
      I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
      Originally posted by BackFistMonkey
      I <3 Battlefields...

      Comment


        #4
        I jst started 2 of my clients on the Westside Barbell for Skinny Bastards workout. It is a modified version of the Westside Barbell method as modified by Joe DeFranco. You might want togo to his site, DeFranco Training, and check it out. Joe has had some very good results with it. It is not designed for aesthetics, but putting on serious muscle is an added bonus.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by battlefields View Post
          Sweet, as I said, I'm not up with the current training methods for this type so any program that builds bulk quickly you can recommend would be good.

          My knee is fine as long as it stays at a relatively obtuse angle. I still haven't had it checked out because I don't have insurance and a specialist is going to cost a bit, which I also don't have.
          Are you saying it's the bending of the knee that causes pain, or the extending? Or both? Like, think of a squat. Does it hurt your knee to go down to the bottom of a squat, or to come out of the hole up to the top, or does it just hurt the whole time?

          Searcher's advice of WS4SB works pretty well. You will put on mass, it will still develop strength, and you can program around your injury.

          Comment


            #6
            It hurts to go down to the bottom of a squat, then hurts on the way back up but once it goes past an obtuse angle it is then weakened. When it is straight it is fine, normal walking is fine, running gives it a bit of impact pressure that increases when going down hill and causes it to feel weak.

            I'll try this WSBFSB.
            GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
            Originally posted by Devil
            I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
            Originally posted by BackFistMonkey
            I <3 Battlefields...

            Comment


              #7
              Consider making the majority of your lower body work romainian deadlifts, straight legged deadlifts, and good mornings.

              Comment


                #8
                Cool, cheers.
                GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
                Originally posted by Devil
                I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
                Originally posted by BackFistMonkey
                I <3 Battlefields...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Emevas View Post
                  Mass training is highly dependent on programming rather than just movements and sets/reps, where rest periods are key along with principles like rest pausing and volume manipulation.

                  Any chance you could go abit more indepth on this and/or link me to some where that does?

                  Ive been doing 5x5 strong lifts for some time and want to switch to something else for a little while with my main goal been size more than strength.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I would start by reading Stuart McRobert's "Brawn" to get a realistic idea of bodybuilding training, and from there consider Super Squats just for an understanding of the value of the rest pause principle. After that, you could consider Practical Programming for Starting Strength just to understand the biological processess that are happening during training (Or Super Training by Mel Siff if you're REALLY into the hard science), and then you'd just want to read every article you could on the subject from t-muscle and elitefts, because at this point you should know enough to separate the supplement hype from the real stuff.

                    20 rep squats and Dogg Crapp are prime examples of mass gaining programs, but honestly, you want a decent strength foundation before you try to move on there. Something like a 300lb bench, 400lb squat and 500lb deadlift for a 200lb, 5'9 athlete, as the high reps paired with the short rest periods is really going to cut into your working set weights, and it's hard to build muscle using 135lbs.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I agree with the basic point of get strong and then get big (and you tend to get bigger as you get stronger). A 1.5x bw bench, 2x bw squat and 2.5 btw DL is a little ambitious, isn't it though? Those are decent strength athlete numbers. Depending on a number of factors (fiber makeup, nervous system efficiency, et.c), they aren't even necessarily achievable by everyone and can take years to achieve even if they are.

                      If I were the OP and wanted to work on mass and asthetics, I'd workout like a bodybuilder -- 3 to 5 day split, moderately high volume, go for time under tension, etc. Here's a dirty secret: if you haven't done this kind of work in a while, and you're not an advanced trainee, it almost doesn't matter which program you do for a while, as long as you pick a decent one and keep your calories up.

                      (I'm actually looking forward to doing some hypertrophy work in the future, if I can ever keep my damn neck and shoulder from going into spasm; instead I'm dieting and feeling grumpy about it).

                      You can do a lot worse than reading elitefts and t-nation, too. I've learned a ton reading those guys over the years.

                      Last piece of advice: bust your ass in the gym.
                      Last edited by Res Judicata; 8/18/2010 9:12am, .

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Emevas View Post
                        I would start by reading Stuart McRobert's "Brawn" to get a realistic idea of bodybuilding training, and from there consider Super Squats just for an understanding of the value of the rest pause principle. After that, you could consider Practical Programming for Starting Strength just to understand the biological processess that are happening during training (Or Super Training by Mel Siff if you're REALLY into the hard science), and then you'd just want to read every article you could on the subject from t-muscle and elitefts, because at this point you should know enough to separate the supplement hype from the real stuff.

                        20 rep squats and Dogg Crapp are prime examples of mass gaining programs, but honestly, you want a decent strength foundation before you try to move on there. Something like a 300lb bench, 400lb squat and 500lb deadlift for a 200lb, 5'9 athlete, as the high reps paired with the short rest periods is really going to cut into your working set weights, and it's hard to build muscle using 135lbs.

                        Was going to give 20reps squats ago pretty soon actually thanks for the extra info, my stats currently are 200lbs, 5"10
                        Squat-286lbs
                        Bench-198lbs
                        Deadlift-231lbs

                        Thats 5x5 not my 1 rep max

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Res Judicata View Post
                          I agree with the basic point of get strong and then get big (and you tend to get bigger as you get stronger). A 1.5x bw bench, 2x bw squat and 2.5 btw DL is a little ambitious, isn't it though?

                          Not for the 5'9, 200lb athlete I spoke of. It would scale differently depending on bodyweight, not as a direct translation.

                          It should only take a few years of dedicated training, during which time one will get much bigger.

                          This was Stuart McRobert's suggestion in Brawn, and I personally lived up to it and found it to be true.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            They're still ambitious for a natural recreational athlete (juice monkeys, otoh ...). According these standards, each of those numbers would put someone around between "advanced" and "elite" for each of those lifts in the 198 or 220 lb class. http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLi...hStandards.htm They're defined this way:

                            Advanced

                            An individual with multi-year training experience with definite goals in the higher levels of competitive athletics.

                            Elite

                            Refers specifically to athletes competing in strength sports. Less than 1% of the weight training population will attain this level.

                            In powerlifting terms, that's a 1200 lb total, putting someone around Class 1 for 198/220 lb raw lifters in this drug-free federation. http://www.criticalbench.com/powerli...ifications.htm

                            That's strong.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Those standards are taken from football players, who though strong, put more of their time training football than lifting. If you only focus on the task of lifting, those numbers simply don't reflect accurately.

                              I agree, it's a lot for a recreational trainee. I'm not talking about a recreational trainee, I'm talking about a bodybuilding trainee, as that's what Dogg Crapp is designed for.

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