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  • Telum
    replied
    I am sorry for the thread necromancy, but I just had to tell those two "5th dans":

    Traditional, respectful martial arts dont attack? They dont spar full contact? Thats bullshit.
    Back in the day, people would DIE in duels. Musashi killed over 50 people in duels along, forgetting completely about regular battles. Matsamura killed people. Itotsu killed people. Azato killed people. I dont know much about the history of other TMA, but im sure their instructors killed people in duels too.

    Leave a comment:


  • djm
    replied
    Yeah yeah, I know I'm resurrecting and ancient thread but I could not control my laughter going through all 56 pages of this. Someone really needs to take up this challenge.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldarbong
    replied
    Sleep-overs eh? Is Michael Jackson a sensei there ?

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  • It is Fake
    replied
    Originally posted by thepals
    Ah, I see what you mean regarding the two terms, and I agree it's impossible to tell if a Mcdojo teaches bullshido w/o some either real life, sparring, or competition combat: before I had to take the word of KJMS and Bakido artists who have used it in those situations, which wasn't good enough for me. We do now offer a sparring/grappling class, and I agree that I have learned a lot in the few sessions I've attended on how to take what I've learned into a practical arena. So bullshido no, Mcdojo at times, but the real stuff is there. We also encourage cross training as most martial artists discover as they advance the pros and cons of what they study and want to study more.

    Austin is a huge martial arts town, and I have to drive by 3 schools to get to my dojo, with 3 more the other direction. I've seen a lot of seriously commercialized schools with questionable practicality. In my new exposure to cross training, I can say the things I've learned in Bakido are useful, and as I'm progressing in sparring they will become even more useful. The school itself has made great progress toward providing that. As the home page says, the focus is combat: ith all the competition in this town, we have to provide that. Social discipline is about respecting authority, working hard, etc. but in MA it comes when you have the ability to harm someone but restrain from doing it unless necessary, and working very hard to gain that ability. If you can't harm someone, then discipline isn't the same thing.

    I'm done now: I appreciated the discussion, it's given me a lot of things to think about as I study, about my dojo, how I can help improve it, what I like about it, and how to portray that on our site. Thank you.

    I'm enjoying surfing around the threads!
    The reason bullshido is called is your instructor's rank and Hall Of Fame associations. The few I saw have been exposed as bullshido orginazations better known as "pay for play," IMO.

    The kids in the pictures have yellow belts with black stipes and also some with black and red stripes. That is Mcdojoish.

    Your school has optional (yes if they come and go they aren't required) sparring classes with grappling (crappling IMO). This Bullshido IMO.


    Have fun continuing to be deluded.

    Leave a comment:


  • thepals
    replied
    Ah, I see what you mean regarding the two terms, and I agree it's impossible to tell if a Mcdojo teaches bullshido w/o some either real life, sparring, or competition combat: before I had to take the word of KJMS and Bakido artists who have used it in those situations, which wasn't good enough for me. We do now offer a sparring/grappling class, and I agree that I have learned a lot in the few sessions I've attended on how to take what I've learned into a practical arena. So bullshido no, Mcdojo at times, but the real stuff is there. We also encourage cross training as most martial artists discover as they advance the pros and cons of what they study and want to study more.

    Austin is a huge martial arts town, and I have to drive by 3 schools to get to my dojo, with 3 more the other direction. I've seen a lot of seriously commercialized schools with questionable practicality. In my new exposure to cross training, I can say the things I've learned in Bakido are useful, and as I'm progressing in sparring they will become even more useful. The school itself has made great progress toward providing that. As the home page says, the focus is combat: ith all the competition in this town, we have to provide that. Social discipline is about respecting authority, working hard, etc. but in MA it comes when you have the ability to harm someone but restrain from doing it unless necessary, and working very hard to gain that ability. If you can't harm someone, then discipline isn't the same thing.

    I'm done now: I appreciated the discussion, it's given me a lot of things to think about as I study, about my dojo, how I can help improve it, what I like about it, and how to portray that on our site. Thank you.

    I'm enjoying surfing around the threads!

    Leave a comment:


  • It is Fake
    replied
    As for commenting on an old thread, the school is still open, and the web site needs work.
    By your comments you have breathed life into a dead debate. The problem isn't just the website.




    Originally posted by thepals

    What I am really getting at here is how to improve the web site to better represent what he do and reflect the credentials, and I found the suggestions and criticisms in this thread very helpful.
    Well hire a web designer. If we feel it is a Mcdojo we aren't going to help you market.

    Overall, I like my dojo, and from what I gathered from this discussion the major criticism of the school was partly the site (which I can fix)
    Which is fixable but only half the problem by your own admission.


    and the fact that it's impossible to know if the moves are useful w/o some full striking/sparring or free grappling (which I can't change). Though over the years we have had sparring classes that come and go, it's not a belt test requirement. We're starting a new sparring class now that I'm really looking forward to.

    There you go. This is why your techniques are questionable. Sparring at your school exists or it doesn't. If sparring comes and goes your school is spouting bullshido when it teaches self defense. Dead patterns and compliant partners do nothing to validate techniques.

    This a huge red flag when deciding on your Mcdojo status.

    I AGREE that the site really does portray a McDojo, and as a successful business I contend that it has to be somewhat portrayed that way to parents. However, I also want the site to reflect the serious MA we do there, not just the kid's program.
    It is a Mcdojo again by your own definition.

    What is the problem?

    You resurrected a dead thread to deny your school is a Mcdojo. Yet, everything you say makes it a Mcdojo.

    Leave a comment:


  • thepals
    replied
    LOL! Seriously, I thought you were teasing about throwdowns, but I've made my way to the videos and see you really do have events! I was certainly joking about the basements and chest blows! Can you link me to a page that talks about these Mcthrowdowns or tournaments? What exaclty are they? The Events link took me off site, so I'm still unclear on what you are referring to. If I'm mistaken, please correct me!

    As for commenting on an old thread, the school is still open, and the web site needs work.

    What I am really getting at here is how to improve the web site to better represent what he do and reflect the credentials, and I found the suggestions and criticisms in this thread very helpful.

    Overall, I like my dojo, and from what I gathered from this discussion the major criticism of the school was partly the site (which I can fix), and the fact that it's impossible to know if the moves are useful w/o some full striking/sparring or free grappling (which I can't change). Though over the years we have had sparring classes that come and go, it's not a belt test requirement. We're starting a new sparring class now that I'm really looking forward to.

    I AGREE that the site really does portray a McDojo, and as a successful business I contend that it has to be somewhat portrayed that way to parents. However, I also want the site to reflect the serious MA we do there, not just the kid's program.
    Last edited by thepals; 1/21/2007 4:19pm, .

    Leave a comment:


  • It is Fake
    replied
    2005 called it wants its thread back. You realize in a few weeks this will be a 2 year old thread as of the last post. 4 years if you consider when the original post was made.

    Originally posted by thepals
    You guys are cracking me up! I study at this school and am completely overhauling the web site this year. My husband is friends with the owner and helped on the first (or rather second version) of the site, and does not study there. Yes, he did find those "neato" waving belt graphics elsewhere when animated GIFs were on every site that now signify sites that suck! I've taken enough Japanese that I'm embarrassed to admit I never even looked at those silly upside-down Chinese symbols! It's a Korean MA. I want to do a more professional classic style, and the critique here on our site and the way it portrays the art has been very helpful as I plan how to improve it!
    Well sorry that is a clear sign of bullshido.

    I'm not commenting on your art but, the original website presentation. A supposed Korean art with upside down chinese characters is a tell tale sign of problems..

    Sensei MJ Bainton is now mostly retired, and the school is run by Master Kyle Cowan. The orginal art taught at the school was Kung Jung Mu Sul (or Kung Jung Moo Sool http://www.uni-konstanz.de/FuF/SportWiss/kjms-kn/), but Sensei had gradually added elements from Hapkido, so that during a presentation, other KJMS in attendance encouraged him to standardize the changes and create his own art. It is very similar to KJMS with Hapkido integrated, and is therefore a hard/soft combination of grappling and striking, focusing more on technique and leverage rather than power.

    As far as the McDojo conclusion, I find that inaccurate due to the many strip mall studios all around the Austin area. South Austin Karate has a successful after-school program for children, and while the evening classes also welcome children, it is usually mostly adults. This makes attending class while my children are also there very helpful, as many other schools we considered required separate class times. After warming up, we split into belt ranks with mutliple instructors. There are also upper-belt class times consisting of teens and adults. It's not the drill seargent, hard core school that a devout MA fanatic is looking for. It is a successful business and children's program that teaches martial arts to adults in the evenings.

    I've been there since Sep 1999, and I just earned my white-black belt in Nov 2005. It's been a slow process that I'm proud of. The students who progress more quickly are there every weeknight for multiple classes. The belt requirements are clearly posted. Rank is awarded by passing the belt test. Brown belt and above may test every 6 months, so that is the "experience" factor. I have two small children there as well: an 8yo blue belt, and a 5yo white belt.
    You just defined the word Mcdojo with these two paragraphs. Bullshido and Mcdojo ARE NOT interchangeable. Good schools can be somewhat Mcdojoish. Bullshido schools are full of lies and detrimental to Martial Arts training 99% of the time.


    As far as the "smack down" offers presented, is that something you regularly engage in with students from other schools? Does it require a hush-hush gathering in a dark basement? Are bets placed? Do you include women in that challenge? I'm a nursing mom, but maybe I can take you on...but now I've revealed my weakness to chest blows, so let's just postpone for about 6 months?
    Why be an ass?

    Yes women go.
    The contact level is dictated by you and your partner.
    They are held in established gyms.
    It isn't a challenge unless you make it a challenge.

    As an adult you shouldn't let internet debates make you say such silly things. You actually look more childish than any comments on this thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • thepals
    replied
    You guys are cracking me up! I study at this school and am completely overhauling the web site this year. My husband is friends with the owner and helped on the first (or rather second version) of the site, and does not study there. Yes, he did find those "neato" waving belt graphics elsewhere when animated GIFs were on every site that now signify sites that suck! I've taken enough Japanese that I'm embarrassed to admit I never even looked at those silly upside-down Chinese symbols! It's a Korean MA. I want to do a more professional classic style, and the critique here on our site and the way it portrays the art has been very helpful as I plan how to improve it!

    Sensei MJ Bainton is now mostly retired, and the school is run by Master Kyle Cowan. The orginal art taught at the school was Kung Jung Mu Sul (or Kung Jung Moo Sool http://www.uni-konstanz.de/FuF/SportWiss/kjms-kn/), but Sensei had gradually added elements from Hapkido, so that during a presentation, other KJMS in attendance encouraged him to standardize the changes and create his own art. It is very similar to KJMS with Hapkido integrated, and is therefore a hard/soft combination of grappling and striking, focusing more on technique and leverage rather than power.

    As far as the McDojo conclusion, I find that inaccurate due to the many strip mall studios all around the Austin area. South Austin Karate has a successful after-school program for children, and while the evening classes also welcome children, it is usually mostly adults. This makes attending class while my children are also there very helpful, as many other schools we considered required separate class times. After warming up, we split into belt ranks with mutliple instructors. There are also upper-belt class times consisting of teens and adults. It's not the drill seargent, hard core school that a devout MA fanatic is looking for. It is a successful business and children's program that teaches martial arts to adults in the evenings.

    I've been there since Sep 1999, and I just earned my white-black belt in Nov 2005. It's been a slow process that I'm proud of. The students who progress more quickly are there every weeknight for multiple classes. The belt requirements are clearly posted. Rank is awarded by passing the belt test. Brown belt and above may test every 6 months, so that is the "experience" factor. I have two small children there as well: an 8yo blue belt, and a 5yo white belt.

    It is a very useful part of my martial arts training. I've begun to take some of the free classes at a local Brazilian Jiu-jitsu school, and I appreciate the similarities and the differences.

    As far as the "smack down" offers presented, is that something you regularly engage in with students from other schools? Does it require a hush-hush gathering in a dark basement? Are bets placed? Do you include women in that challenge? I'm a nursing mom, but maybe I can take you on...but now I've revealed my weakness to chest blows, so let's just postpone for about 6 months?
    Last edited by thepals; 1/21/2007 2:45pm, .

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  • Trinity
    replied
    Sleepovers? SLEEPOVERS? CHILD DEVELOPMENT??!!!!!!!!!!

    I'm going to petrol bomb that dojo!!!!!!!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Jekyll
    replied
    Don't forget windmilling in with beer bottles and "You fookin lookin at me?" the DoubleHanded Laple Grab to HeadButt Transition.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hedgehogey
    replied
    The challenge still stands.

    Furthermore, upon request (for it is inevitable that they will say their style is too street specific too defend against anything as technical as, say, a guillotine choke) I will throw hard but sloppy and uncoordinated haymakers exclusively, before moving into the arsenal of moves taught in the "Average Drunk Joe Official Primer" (it is a lucky thing indeed that a copy of this primer fell into the hands of shotokan and hapkido instructors around 1960 or so, otherwise noone would know *what* to do when a rough ruffian of villianny endeavors to seize your lapel), including the "Million different wrist grabs" and "Single and double lapel grab", the much feared "Cross lapel grab" and even the dreaded "lock of the head area".

    I'll even liquor up a little beforehand and hurl such venomous barbs as "Hey, wadda you lookin at?", "Why I oughta" and "I'll moidalize ya", all in a thick brooklyn accent.

    I consider this fair, since this appears to be the scenario bakido students train for.

    I am 100% serious about this offer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wounded Ronin
    replied
    They only teach defense and can't attack. Remember that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Meex
    replied
    I can't believe this is still around. So many pages, so little sense.

    `~/

    Leave a comment:


  • PizDoff
    replied
    Wow, I remember this thread.
    So brain damaging.

    Leave a comment:

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