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Fang Shen Do: Tales From the Inner Circle

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    look when you're small like me you want to have some MA experience...a big black dude punches you even though he's no martial artist you must know how to react...dancers can't...I can.And what I know about bums isn't given me by FSD (actually a bit is but confirmed by other sources like policemen and stuff).


      Originally posted by Patatoseur View Post
      look when you're small like me you want to have some MA experience...a big black dude punches you even though he's no martial artist you must know how to react...dancers can't...I can.And what I know about bums isn't given me by FSD (actually a bit is but confirmed by other sources like policemen and stuff).
      I bet "Policeman and stuff" is a very good source of info. Maybe you could be more specific.

      You may find people on this site are much less likely than you to accept vague unsupported opinions as fact. I know where my teachers got their belts and certifications, and I know they have real skills they WANT to pass on to me.

      I think if you're small (you're taller than me!) you should probably be worried about if what you're learning is effective. maybe by testing it, say, you know, in some kind of competitive venue where you'd get some idea of your level? Nah, much easier to pretend.

      (To be COMPETELY honest, if you get a little pissed off and decide to prove your point by trying out sparring against someone at a proper club, you'll almost inevitably switch when you see the difference, so I don't mind saying 'dancer' a lot. Nothing personal, I'm sure you're a very nice guy).

      So, since I'm not getting your words right, maybe you can answer this:


      1. An opponent your size and weight and age.
      2. An opponent with the same amount of time training in BJJ as you have in FSD
      3. You get ANY FSD unarmed techniques you like
      4. He gets ONLY tournament approved moves.
      5. You fight ON A STREET.

      I see three options, win,lose,tie. Which one do you think is likely?

      Now switch it up a little. Say the AVERAGE FSD student vs the AVERAGE BJJ student?

      (keep in mind, I'm not saying BJJ is the only good art, it's just my example, I would also accept Sambo, Judo, Muay Thai, even high school wrestling, really)

      I know, I know, I'm a big meany. But at least I know who gave my sensei his belt.


        Seriously I think that at this point the winner would change from one time to another.And by small I meant that I'm fit but you know...155 isn't really impressive in terms of muscular mass.By police and stuff I meant all the times intervenant came to our schools to speak about aggression or even at Saint-John ambulance.And I already made some researches about where Sijo got his diplomas and belts and yes it sometimes get confused but it's because of all of you (some of you know what they are talking about though) who are all going different directions with that and I can't wait to start a little search on my own.


          Oh wait...I have every posible moves and he does only have tournements rules...FSD wins.




              I really like to debate so don't think I'm done all right but it's getting late so i'll end with that: if FSD "dancing" saved me 4 times from severe injuries (some of those guys weren't small believe me) or even maybe even death well thanks a lot and I fucking love to dance...see you tomorrow...


                You are 18 (??). You are the converted;hook, line, and sinker. You described a class or two. My guess, it's pretty much the same class you have most of the time.
                Perhaps you are right, despite the thousands of posts made in forums on Bullshido (and other sites) by people with volumes more experience than you in both life and MA's, who say otherwise. That makes sense to you?
                The lack of response of fsd to validate it's ever volatile claims, and jp's totally re-fabricated history regarding his rank(s), his life, and his "personal" fight record. I have yet to come across any lore of his fighting prowess that did not involve a drunk, or a student, or a kid. The only one to say jp was a tough guy and a fighter is jp himself! Scary, but in a demented way.
                I'm sure Patatoseur that you have personally raised your own concerns regarding the fees and your training to your instructor.
                If you buy into fsd, well, then I suppose that's the best you could do despite the info available to you. Good on you, I guess. That "sucked in" feeling you proactively defend is not unique. You weren't the first and as you know, unfortunately, you were not the last either. fsd is sticking to the soap it uses.
                If you all you have is a personal testimonial, then pay martini to post it on fsd site. In the meantime, please go away.
                Come back when you have copies of jp's piles of documented achievements, ones that he didn't sign himself. While you're at it get copies martini's special achievements also. Good luck with that! We haven't had much.

                Golf is a foul four-letter word.


                  Originally posted by Patatoseur View Post
                  Oh wait...I have every posible moves and he does only have tournements rules...FSD wins.
                  Thank you! I'm done here.

                  See you when you wake up.


                    Originally posted by Patatoseur View Post
                    And I already made some researches about where Sijo got his diplomas and belts
                    Please do share.


                      Originally posted by Patatoseur View Post
                      look when you're small like me you want to have some MA experience...a big black dude punches you even though he's no martial artist you must know how to react ....
                      jp used to say "a big black dude" used in the same vein. What's with that anyway? Just curious.

                      Please do send us, me, someone, your "research" on jp's claims. I know you have since said you didn't care about jps MA history, but just humour us and send what links you have or copies of your research results, so we can comb through it to see if it is legitimate.

                      Thank You!
                      (See... no sarcasm!)



                        You really need to go back and read through all of the FSD threads on here. You are following exactly the same pattern as every other pro-FSD person. You started out sounding like you wanted to have a conversation or a debate. Now you sound like you are getting frustrated. Soon you will verbally throw up your hands and walk away.

                        If, in fact, you want a debate, then you need to open your mind. What you are actually doing is hoping that by saying the same thing over and over again the people who read Bullshido will change their mind. That is not going to happen.

                        You claim that the people posting in response to your messages are running out of material. Funny. It seems the pro-FSD crowd ran out of material a LONG time ago. You are presenting the same arguements that all of them, including the sifus, have used. You have offered very little new information to the discussion.

                        Here is what I believe we can agree upon:

                        1. FSD is too expensive.
                        2. FSD gives you a good cardio workout.

                        At that point I think we all part company. The discriminating readers and posters here do not suffer fools lightly. While I can't say for fact, I think generally there is no one here who hates FSD. You need to put that comment aside. I think you have started most of your posts saying something similar to that. The thing that people on Bullshido seem to hate is bullshit. You are simply parading out the same old bullshit that has been posted here a bunch of times before.

                        You have now posted quite clearly that you believe FSD is better than all other martial arts. You have given the same story about how FSD is not for the ring because there are too many DEADLY moves that you would be unable to use in the ring. You have also trotted out the old chestnut about how tough everyone is when they are behind the computer screen. All you have shown me is that you are an example of EXACTLY what has been said in these threads. You have taken the messages your sifus have fed you and believed it with no evidence beyond them saying so. In that, I say you are a fool.

                        You have explained how a regular class runs. This is some new-ish information. Of course with that explanation you have simply shown that there has been no evolution of FSD with respect to how they deliver their material. Little time is devoted to new material, and it is all delivered and practiced in a passive manner.

                        I applaud you for coming here to defend your "art". It takes balls to stand up and be counted. I also think you deserve some credit since you are obviously a francophone and you have chosen to post on a site that is all in english. Good for you.

                        As for the rest, I will ask these questions of you:

                        1. Who is the sifu at your location?

                        2. What is his current rank?

                        3. Who awarded him his rank?

                        4. Can you provide any evidence of sijo's MANY black belts?

                        5. I am curious about the paradigm shift in the FSD organization - for years they have inferred that BJJ and judo practitioners in particular are homosexuals as they spend their time rolling around in pyjamas with other men. Now you claim that sparring often ends on the ground and that FSD claims mastery in grappling. Perhaps you can ask your sifu when it was that BJJ became a part of FSD and why, in their mind, is it no longer a homosexual act.

                        6. Where did the sifus get their grappling training?

                        7. What is your rank?

                        You claim that all you care about is that what you are teaching works. You said that you don't care where sijo's belt(s) come from (Walmart...). Perhaps you may want to consider this little summary:

                        There is an 80s movie called the Karate Kid. Daniel is teaching himself some karate from a book (sort of the way the sifus have learned their BJJ). He meets up with some tough guys who know some real karate who proceed to kick his ass. Daniel then meets an old guy who knows some real karate as he was taught by a real instructor. Daniel then proceeds to kick the asses of all the guys who beat him up.

                        How does that apply? Sijo and the sifus know made up stuff. They have no lineage. They make it up as they go along. Sijo has been caught lying about his association with Mr. DeMile. He has been caught with regards to his certification in Silat. Both DeMile and Silat representatives have posted within these threads. You are learning from liars. This doesn't bother you at all?

                        You claim that what you are taught depends on the size of your wallet. This doesn't bother you at all? Should not all students be taught the same thing the same way?

                        You say you are in Montreal and you have been training for three years. You claim that if you, with ALL of your FSD tools, would win vs. a BJJ or muay thai practitioner. I would challenge you then to prove the effectiveness of your training. Go to GAMMA. Go to TRI-Star. Pay the $20 mat fee and spar. After you get your ass handed to you, come back and let us know how it went.

                        I don't hate you. I don't hate FSD. I hate bullshit. I hate liars. Open your eyes and ears. Stop following blindly.


                          Here you go Patatseur

                          Here are some questions for you. I admit that they were posted earlier in this thread by a number of people. Since they have basically never been answered, perhaps you can go and talk to your sifu about it.

                          While you are at it, maybe you should review the conduct of Sifu Pat, Sifu Stephane, FSD Administration, and Sifu Gerry on the threads.

                          Page 31

                          How do you deny the direct correspondence from DeMile that he does not want to be associated with your father?

                          What about the rest of his credentials - where did they come from?

                          I know there have been instructors and assistant instructors who have left. Why?

                          What is the retention rate in your system?

                          How many people stick around?

                          How many legitimate black sashes are there?

                          How many people stay past blue?

                          Page 32

                          How many times have the rules changed for BBC?

                          FSD claims to be superior to other systems so why will you not go and prove it? Would that not be a better way to get students?

                          Page 33

                          Are you denying that FSD claims to be superior to other martial arts and martial systems?

                          Why would you open a school combined with a jiu jitsu system if you are not intending on moving into the ring?

                          Can you really be proud, as an instructor, to have a 300+ pound green sash who can't do a push up? Better yet, a blue who can't yet do warm up drills properly, or who turn their heads away while sparring?

                          Are students at the FSD/Therien site given different uniforms?

                          In case you do come back Stephane, will any of the FSD/Therien students be entering into grappling tournaments?

                          Where did sJP come up with his nutritional guidelines that are presented in the student handbook?

                          Page 34

                          What stories have been twisted?

                          Are you saying there are no longer assistant instructors? Is this just at your school? Can you answer the original question - what is the FSD rationale for charging assistant instructors?

                          Who made the decision [to open a combined school with Therien]? Are you breaking ranks with dad and venturing out on your own, or did he pull the trigger on this? You mentioned that students do not walk into a ring in your school but why else would you pair up with a style so vastly different from FSD if not to promote getting into the ring?

                          Is "Beastman," or whatever you call him, not wanting to compete outside FSD?

                          Will there be nutrition seminars now? An FSD diet plan students can buy? I don't know of any school, including ones with professional fighters, that have nutritionists. Very innovative idea, but why?

                          Page 36

                          Are you trying to tell me that the seminars on grappling and sparring at FSD prepare someone to put their life on the line? Are you saying that practicing against compliant opponents in class prepare your students to put their life on the line?

                          How many bad things have I said about YOU personally?

                          Are you saying that if I go out and buy a muay thai manual, some boxing books, some wrestling, bjj, and kung fu books and read them that I can give myself a black belt in TakeMoneyFromYourWallet Fu and call myself a qualified expert?

                          Is it really that unreasonable to ask for you, since you are the only FSD representative to stay here more than a few posts without blowing up or taking off, to account for what has happened and how or if changes are being made?

                          Is this a common practice or is it just at your school? (this was related to a comment you made about grappling being part of every combat class)

                          So the FSD/Therien students will be showing up at tournaments then?

                          What are the stand up skills in FSD? Are you actually asking that question?

                          Pg. 39

                          Who said BJJ was invincible?

                          Pg 41.

                          Has all of your martial arts training come from your father?

                          Have you ever had MA training outside of FSD?

                          If so, what was it in, who were your instructors, and how long were you there for?


                            Green Hornet, you could just link him to your old screen name, he could see the evolution of your opinion on FSD.


                              All right.First I would just like to say that I'm not racist and when I say "big black dude" I just mean big dude but I don't know why...big black dude sounds scarier to me. Second I would also like to point out that disrespecting another martial art, even though you don't like it, is one of the worst thing a martial artist can do and I never heard about FSD calling BJJ and Judo guys homosexuals and if they did believe me I really think it's as bad as any of you insulting FSD (even though I have nothing against homosexuals but in this case it was used as an insult).I would also point out the fact that I don't think FSD is the best martial art there is,in my mind every martial art itself (taken the instructors capacities away) is equal depending on your objectives.I will (when I'll have more time and money) follow BJJ or JJ and Muai Thai as well as probably continuing FSD.I would also like to say that all I read from you really gets to me and that I'm not as blindly following as you may think I am.I'm already starting researches about many topics we discussed and will have a lot to discuss with my instructors and Sifu.I also will take an appointement (probably) at a Muai Thay shcool in order to see some classes and compare.I am always open minded but somehow I chose FSD for a reason and loved it (and still love it) until I saw these posts and before quitting it must be at 100% clear in my mind that you are right and it's not that good.Now,I may sound frustrated or else but I DO (and already did before) realise there might odds things in there.Don't be to happy right now,like I said I still LOVE FSD and it will take a lot to get me out of there.I also will try to get back with as many answers as possible to your many questions,like I said I'm no staff member and it's sometimes hard to answer all your questions "on the spot".You also have to understand that in my mind,when your art is running since 35 years and you have shcools all over Canada, where your Sifus and Sijo get your belt isn't really on your mind because you're beyond that,taking for granted that a non-fighter could'nt accomplish such a success in martial arts.Well to make it short,I'll check it out,probably stay in FSD though and will be back soon with answers.Stay open minded like I am...avoids conflict.
                              Last edited by Patatoseur; 5/07/2009 6:29pm, .


                                I forgot to say that what makes it really difficult is the fact that you guys (mostly former FSD student i hope) says it's crap while a lot of other people,newspapers,magazine etc (that are not in any link with FSD) says it's the best art there is.Like I said it's hard to choose because or it's the best,or the worst...i never heard something in between!!!



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