Announcement

**DdlR** · 7/02/2006 1:50am,

Omega,

thanks, it's good to see someone making a serious effort towards this sort of analysis.

Obviously I disagree with some of your assessments, and I'll be happy to discuss that if you like. In the short term, could you clarify which materials you were using towards your report? For example, did you actually study the "Questions Answered" DVD itself or just the promotional excerpt? Which of the Systema instructional DVDs were you working from?

**Kungfoolss** · 7/02/2006 2:08am,

Originally posted by Omega

Systema; the way not to do.
(*=legal terms used.)

So you are trapped in a room within only fifteen minutes of air left. The room is made of steel, the door is made of steel, it is air tight and the door is locked. You do not have a key, there is no window and the air is getting stale. What do you do? Unlock the door and go outside. Simple answer.

This is a riddle I present to my students. Usually the most simple minded get this easily. What does this have to do with Systema? I will get to that in a moment. A gentleman named Rich Grannon shown here http://www.systemaquestionsanswered.co.uk/

Problem I had with Rich was not his lack of credentials, but with his immaturity at Bullshido and his apparent inability to judge the validity of systema as shown in the video footage.

Here's where I differ with you, while Rich's attacks were "sloppy," the mechanics utilized by Paul Genge were worse. Even if the students attacks were inept, that does not excuse Paul Genge from being just as bad. If anything, it should've been easier for officer Genge to deal with. Let's use a raquetball analogy, if I'm playing against an 'D' or beginner (I'm a 'B'), it's mere child's play to move with ease against the sloppy hits and returns from a beginner. The reverse is true as well, when I go against an 'A' player, their body movements are so crisp and smooth, they can tear me apart without breaking a sweat. The same truth applies to all endeavors including hand-2-hand combat. I can only conclude that Paul while he may have an inkling of instructor level knowledge within systema, by professional and instructor level standards, his understanding of body dynamics relatively poor and found wanting.

On the other hand I offered to step up and analyze the Systema techniques as a professional fighter and instructor. I have experience in personal security, bar security, and a few street skirmishes here and there. Members HanktheTank, Kobayashi, and Csinca have offered their resources in finding truths in Systema training. I grouped together 4 instructors spanning several disciplines to dissect the techniques shown. The instructions to these experts were to make the techniques work, understand the techniques, and break down the exercises as best we could in the short amount of time. These instructors represent Jeet Kune Do, Silat, MMA, Aikijitsu, Kali, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, SAMBO, BJJ, Taekwondo, Kenjitsu and Kung-fu; two of the instructors have fought and taught people for dog brother gatherings. We asked for one systema instructor to come and show us what systema was all about but after initial contact the instructor never returned our follow up emails. No other instructor volunteered.

The simple truth, systema is bullshit. There is no other way around it

Can anybody say, Arkadiy Stepankovskiy?

?

So is systema complete rubbish? No, it is not.

Systema practitioners still train hard. They learn grappling they do spar. One of the instructors actually likes their shovel techniques. They do learn valid techniques that have actually been proven. None of these techniques that I have learned, have anything to do with the wavy, internal, breathing *shit we found on the videos. As I hinted at the beginning of my report sometimes the simplest answers tend to be the best. Most of those no touch knockdowns you have seen are actually just exercises in avoidance and movement. Most of those light touches where a person gets knocked off their feet is a student being sucker punched, or reacting according to a preconditioned response, like aikidoka getting airborne from a simple wrist lock.

I have sparred two systema practitioners in my life time. Both of whom hurt themselves sparring, and after watching these videos I now know why. While I developed a huge headache, one of my instructors rolled around laughing while my students stood around with gapping mouths.

**Kungfoolss** · 7/02/2006 2:12am,

Originally posted by DdlR

Omega,

thanks, it's good to see someone making a serious effort towards this sort of analysis.

Obviously I disagree with some of your assessments,

Perhaps, if you removed your head from RobG's ass, you might see the light.

and I'll be happy to discuss that if you like. In the short term, could you clarify which materials you were using towards your report? For example, did you actually study the "Questions Answered" DVD itself or just the promotional excerpt? Which of the Systema instructional DVDs were you working from?

*Kungfoolss reads the tea leaves* It's becoming clear to me now, I see more spin and damage control in the works here.

**mrblackmagic** · 7/02/2006 8:20am,

You're right. I'll see if Genge is willing to put up the rest of his throwdown footage on youtube.

>>>edit

Screw it.

**Clyde** · 7/02/2006 9:39am,

Hey Omega, let him try that shit against you or me, they'd see what does or doesn't work in short order LOL.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

**Neildo** · 7/02/2006 9:49am,

Originally posted by Clyde

Hey Omega, let him try that shit against you or me, they'd see what does or doesn't work in short order LOL.

Awesome. Get video.

**mrblackmagic** · 7/02/2006 10:24am,

I can see it now. Bullshidokas standing around waving :20bux:'s in there hands screaming, "didi mao, didi mao, didi mao!" Oh God, I need some sleep.

**RobP** · 7/02/2006 11:14am,

http://bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35658

**It is Fake** · 7/02/2006 11:18am,

Yeah and what is your point?

**mrblackmagic** · 7/02/2006 11:23am,

I think he's saying on September 16 will be the salvation or the end of systema as we know it.

**Omega Supreme** · 7/02/2006 11:24am,

Originally posted by DdlR

Omega,

thanks, it's good to see someone making a serious effort towards this sort of analysis.

Obviously I disagree with some of your assessments, and I'll be happy to discuss that if you like. In the short term, could you clarify which materials you were using towards your report? For example, did you actually study the "Questions Answered" DVD itself or just the promotional excerpt? Which of the Systema instructional DVDs were you working from?

Let's see, besides my own experiance and two of the other instructors who had direct experiance:

Knife Defence by Vladamir VAsiliev 1995
Russian Martial Art The System: [strikes] Mikail Ryabko and Vladimir VAsiliev 2003
....I've got the other 3 videos at my studio so I can't give you the title's exactly but they were self-defense, another knife, and ground work.

With all due respect to you Dldr. I won't bother to take a look at the "Questions answered" Richard Grannon is not a credible source. I won't believe anything he says. Essentially he's full of shit. I on the other hand am a MMA "Cage Fighter", and one of the other instructors does teach guys to "Cage Fight".

I shall try this in another way, the system uses a lot of silly non sense to get people to relax, and move in a specific way. It reminded us of some Aikido techniques, remember we had an Aikijitsu instructo with us, great nothing wrong with that. Some strategies, arguable will give you that. Systema claims simple to learn. Wrong. Systema claims light strikes that hit the internal organs. Wrong, they're called sucker punches on nerve clusters.

There was one exibition of breathing M. Ryabko striking a student until he caught him off breathing or struck him where he wasn't ready to take the blow. Yay, thumbs up, no secret here dude but it's nothing mystical. Mr. Grannon couldn't figure this shit out? Some expert he is.

You want credit here it is:
Mikhail Ryabko can really hit, he hits very effectively: Using the exact same principals I see in many other striking systems.
Can systema grapple: yes, not super well but better than average
Can Systema strike: the wave technique is crap but they strike
Can Systema spar: I saw 2 of my lower belts get sucker punched by the systema guy who came and sparred with us a few years ago. I busted up laughing as my senior belts tried to coach them. I was like, let him do it it's their style. If it works it works. I told the kid that's cools stuff but don't do it against an experianced guy. He called out my senior guy, a brown belt. My brown belt killed him. He then called me out, kudos to him. Long story short, he broke his hand 'whipping' it over to hit me on the head.

Can Systema guys defend hand to hand: They use typical military self-defense tactics that I've seen taught to Hong Kong Police, US Police, and UK Police. Sure why not.

Can they defend knife: It's crap, it will get you killed, I can't stress this shit enough. Nothing will convince me otherwise. I'd rather take knife defense from an ATA Taekwondo Blackbelt.

Now if it wasn't for the fact that systema likes to spout out a load of bullshit about its capabilities I would've given them a low score on the bullshido meter, maybe a 4. But since I've seen, heard, read and experianced all this shit I give it about an 8. There's no reason to brainwash you guys into believing some of these strategies, imo teach them the simple stuff first and then go into this theoretical crap. Maybe you guys do but it's still just *bullshit.

Effectiveness, again if it wasn't for all the other crap I would've rated it quite high. But you mire yourselves down with shit that really reminds me of games I give the kiddies to have fun with during class. So I give it a 4. Without the crap I would've given it a 6. Nobody ever scores a 10, there is no fool proof martial art.

Disagree with me all you want. If you do you only prove everybody right. I looked at this with neutral eyes and after the 3rd video I could barely take it anymore. We practiced for days with this stuff having students who haven't seen the videos attack us and see if we could even get minor reaction out of them. None. We had over 130 years of experiance in that room for 2 weeks on and off. Sorry, failing grade.

**RobP** · 7/02/2006 11:25am,

Who's stopping you going to try it? Not us.

**It is Fake** · 7/02/2006 11:31am,

Oh this again. He tries to conatct a systema practioner in his area. No response.

Suddenly, it is come to the UK.

That is what I thought.

**mrblackmagic** · 7/02/2006 11:39am,

The answer is always on the other shore. Better go ahead an book a flight on orbits.

Announcement

Final Report: Systema-

Final Report: Systema-

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment