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Fang Shen Do II: The Fangshizzle

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    I've tried to avoid the original FSD thread (tl, ts;dr) but this caught my eye.

    This shit is canadian? Like, brewed in Canada?


    Im reminded of this Cobra Kai place i found in town. how fucked up is that shit?
    Last edited by Neildo; 5/06/2006 6:41pm, .


      Originally posted by TKDer
      What the hell is this Fang Shen Do stuff, who created it, what does it teach, why is BS and why do people rag on it?

      Too lazy for search function.. im not a n00b anymore anyway. Explain. Now.
      2 laz 4 U, make an effort, there's a thread with over 1500 replies, skim through it, see you in a few weeks when your done reading okbynowthx.


        ex-FSD student

        For the price I was paying:

        - Instructors needed to be more hands on. Too many classes we would spend 5-10 minutes working on a specific kick, combo or takedown without any real supervision. The Instructors would start the drill then walk away. Maybe check in once. Didn't really watch the students and correct them. There were some classes where it felt like the Instructor didn't want to be there. The Instructors would seem to want to just get it over with.

        - Alot of information was skipped over. Some techniques in the student manual were rarely seen in class. A student going twice a week may never see some of the test material. That student could show up, do their test and be taught something on the spot. Then never see it again... which leads to...

        - Students passing tests who should not. I remember some students who were awful at blue level. People who would get killed by someone on the street in a real self-defense situation. Obviously you want to keep students happy and advancing, but the school's first objective should be to preparing the students for real-life encounters. The school's defense has always been that "some people aren't committed to getting better. They need to put in more effort in class, they need to show up more." That's something that should be addressed with those students at the test. Instead they are passed to the next rank. It does a disservice to everyone if that happens. People at green level have to partner with other greens and they should get someone of that calibre. Not someone who is passed to green because they've put in their time. It hurts not only the students who weak, but also the students who are strong.


        - I have very little experience with the FSD Sparring/Grappling classes as I only saw what was done in class and in the Sparring classes I saw at the end of regular class. But from what I can tell, it was alot of scenario's where roles were given to each partner with very strict guidelines (kicks vs. punches, strikes vs. wrestler....) This could be effective if it was done with a goal to find a students openings and weaknesses, but it seemed it was done without supervision. Thus students could get beat and not really understand the proper technique to compensate. Having two students face off while the rest of the class watched might be a better way to run it. I'm not sure, as I don't have any real experience with that. It just seemed like there was again, a lack of focus/supervision.

        - Grappling in class was sparse. From what I do recall, was that if I ever was on the bottom position, I was done. I could squirm, but I pretty much was going to get knocked out. Everything I saw was taught from the mount or side mount. As a self-defense it would be important to put more focus on the bottom position. I remember we talked alot about how it's best to just avoid that situation all together by stopping the entry and take down, but in real life you could get sucker punched or pushed down without ever seeing your attacker and find yourself on the ground.

        Overall, it seemed like there was a lack of realism. For a school that prides itself on having the most aggressive self-defsense system for real-life situations I felt that was the biggest thing missing. This is partly because the school spends alot of time teaching moves that they admit are useless in real life situations. The traditional moves are what makes FSD Kung Fu and not just a street self-defense class so there's no escaping those teachings. The benefits of those moves were always explained as being for "building intensity" and "learning perimeters" etc... but that could be picked up just as quickly in sparring and grappling. Looking back a regular class could consist of

        10 minute warm up
        10 minutes of traditional kung fu (palm phan sao, lin sil die dar...)
        20 minutes of strikes and trapping
        10 minutes of exercise stations

        Considering what is offered at other schools in the city for half that price, I really don't think FSD students are getting their money's worth.

        The Ottawa BBJ Gracie school offers MMA, BJJ and Muay Thai for $20 less/month. That's unlimited classes of MMA, BJJ and MT vs. 2 classes/week MAX at FSD.

        If you want to ask: What would make me go back to FSD?

        I think the onus is on the school to show that the system works. If the school held in house tournaments that would be a start. BUT like mentioned earlier, it would require students/instructors to compete outside of the school. If that was done AND the price was lowered, I would consider going back.

        Thanks for listening FSD management. I appreciate that. I hope some of this is helpful!


          Originally posted by Macte
          Ok, any of you that have them check out Larry Hartsell`s old grappling books, the ones with the lists of "concept" possible techiniques from the 80`s.... Bingo..there are all of your FSD plain jane view..I kid you not..they are all there..pulled right out of the books....One of Larry`s own students pointed this out to a group of us the other day....most of them are out of the 'Entering to Trapping to Grappling" book the first one...
          my my my....
          As well, please refer to James Demile's three books on the "Tao of Wing Chun Do". sJP's FSD is taken from these books and it is exactly word for word, technique for technique.

          I guess this is his interpretation of the martial to sniff the bucket anyone??


            Me too..

            Ive got two signed books by Hartsell...and one by Guro Dan too..wanna pool our resources and get on e-bay for the fsd guys??Who`s in????


              we should send them a book about aliveness first... if that kind of book actually exists.


                I have the FSD One and Three Inch Punch Book written by and autographed by Sijo Patenaude himself.

                Let the bidding begin.....


                  did you know that the verb to bid and the word buddha had the same indo-european root?


                  back to the subject: FSD sux...
                  seriously the fact that this thread is breaking records of longetivity is a good indicator of FSD bullshido-ness.



                    Better send a Thesaurus with that aliveness book....went out to a private class of a JKD/MMA guy in Ottawa last week..he`s under Vunak....does not teach any trapping..lots of clinch work...randori type training to make it work...lots of conditioning through the training, thai work...and such..on the pads and full contact of his students said that the entire kali structure in fsd was from one of Vunaks old tapes....that he was told the Gracies suck by an fsd`er awhile back...said a freind of his was threatened a few years back as well after leaving.
                    It sounds like they slag all the other schools in Ottawa and beyond big time....claim people are "useless" if they quit and train elsewhere as well....a buddy of mine who trains Sambo openly challenged them awhile back and they would not go for it..
                    I know for a fact that the older group of guys who left and did Wing Chun were heavily intimidtated and at times threatened...


                      Originally posted by red-dragon
                      As well, please refer to James Demile's three books on the "Tao of Wing Chun Do".
                      It suddenly struck me how silly it is to have the word Dao twice in the title. And once in Japanese.
                      52 blocks documentary: arrived

                      "Joe Lauzon looks like a quiet, Internet guy..." -- Dana White


                        Originally posted by meng_mao
                        It suddenly struck me how silly it is to have the word Dao twice in the title. And once in Japanese.
                        you mean like in tao of jeet kune do?

                        ...yeah I'm a bitch.


                          Originally posted by GreenHornet
                          you mean like in tao of jeet kune do?

                          ...yeah I'm a bitch.
                          But see, Bruce was the original "market this to crackers" man. He deserves respect. Though...wasn't the Tao book was assembled posthumously?
                          52 blocks documentary: arrived

                          "Joe Lauzon looks like a quiet, Internet guy..." -- Dana White


                            yeah the blame is on Linda Lee Cadwell...

                            wait a minute Sijo's wife name is Linda too... Aaaah now I get it!



                              Man you said, exactly.

                              I hated it when we would be given a technique, endurance drill or whatever to do and then the sifu would wonder off to do god knows what.
                              Totally ignoring us.
                              How were supposed to get better? If you did'nt know something a higher level student would point it out and then you'd pass it on to a less experienced student, right or wrong.
                              I've had other students who were 1 rank above me teach me basic things that should have been corrected years earlier by a sifu.
                              This happened often.

                              How are you supposed to get good at takedowns, phon sao and such when we would never practise them in class? There where like 12 takedowns and 15 phon sao which we rarely ever practised. Or we'd get 10 minutes to run through them all by ourselves.

                              The point about a student going to class 2 times a week and then testing and not ever been shown a technique on the test is so true! This happened on every test I took after yellow sash. No shit!.
                              Or they would ask you a question that was from a higher sash that you were'nt even supposed to know at that level. Or they ask you some question that was'nt even in the student manual/curriculum.

                              Students getting let through the ranks unready. Big problem.
                              I'd be trying to do some techniques with guys and they'd be talking about god knows what!
                              Shut the fuck up and train that is why I am here!
                              That pissed me off more than anything Sijo ever did.
                              My time is valuable and I'm trying to become a martial artist, not some guy who shows up to trick himself in to thinking he's good. Then they wonder why they could'nt put me down or make the technique work.
                              Put some balls behind it! Show up to class to paticipate. Be a good partner.

                              These point alone make it a bad school! Never mind all the legitimate points that have been raised.


                                so enhanced did you prepare your departure from fsd ?



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