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    Originally posted by Ronin
    You really should look very closely at the ass you are making of yourself.
    The pot is calling the kettle black.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Scrapper
      Oh, don't take it personally JFS...I check everybody out when they have that much to say. It's what I do!

      Comment


        Originally posted by plasmagoat
        I did not use that as my basis.

        People here (generally speaking) have proved by their own actions that they are beneath me. I did not come here with the assumption that they are, but they simply proved that they are. I have attempted civil discussion, but it has proven either difficult or completely impossible.
        I never stated that you came here thinking everyone was beneath you, merely that at present you are using it as an excuse to not actually address anything asked of you. Which you are. On an aside, I asked you to lose the arrogance. Something which is unfounded to begin with, you claim that trying to be civil has been impossible or difficult. For the impossible... You're incorrect. For the difficult... So what? If it's hard it's not worth it and that makes someone else beneath you?

        Originally posted by plasmagoat
        Thanks for the offer, but I've pretty much said everything there is to be said, several times over. It's all there in my previous posts.
        Not really. And to be honest, my attempt to engage you here isn't purely about what YOU want. I feel it's important for you to discuss exactly what it is you feel needs to change here, otherwise I can't adequately address it. On the other hand, I engaged you because there were questions asked by others that you refused/ignored on the basis of them not being in a place to judge you. An example being that you want others to be civil and then you behave poorly, much as they do. You (justifiably) refused to answer that question by JFS on the basis that he's not in a place to talk to you about your civility. Fair enough. I am in a place to question it and I am doing so. You speak of civility and your mouth is stating otherwise. I'm genuinely curious if this is lack of willpower and unintentional, or if you perhaps... are not really after that which you ask for.

        Originally posted by plasmagoat
        I attempted to be civil in the SPM thread. Of course I eventually resorted to blatant insults after exhausting myself and getting provoked for page after page, but I could never reach the level of JFS even if I tried to. All he does is insult, and nothing else. I've attempted to argue againts him, but all he does is go on a tantrum.
        And that's just it, you eventually resorted to the stuff you claim to not want. When you are to the point where you don't think you can avoid sinking to their level... Take a break. That said, pages of being provoked or not, this is a message board, very little of this is or should be in the heat of the moment stuff where the justification of "I was pushed too far" is valid. As for JFS, he's never openly conceded anything to me. I just kept on it for a while and he kept yelling and eventually he stopped yelling at me, simple as that. Make what you will of the reasons behind it, but the record shows that my constant civility won where as your start civil then curse a lot failed.

        Originally posted by plasmagoat
        I've more or less done that. Result: tons of negative rep with comments like "stfu noob" and nothing but flaming and trolling on the forums, as well as all blame placed on me. I would have been more succesful if I had lowered myself down to JFS' level.
        Keep doing it. Keep trying, keep it up, make sure you only open your mouth on what you have personal experience on. If you can't do that keep everything you say as a question. You want to play by the rules of polite and civil. That's what it takes. And no, you wouldn't have been more successful if you were at JFS's level. Because then the people arguing with you would still be arguing with you and you'd alienate all your potential allies. (Something I might be if you can stay civil long enough for me to make sense of what's going on).

        Beyond that, the people that argue with JFS and lose tend to walk away at least thinking they're superior if for no other reason than too often vaunted civility.. (Doesn't make them right). On the other hand, people I've shredded walk away KNOWING they lost on all levels. Which is a more valuable victory?

        Originally posted by plasmagoat
        He went coherent right after he thought I had left. That's what I noted.

        The fact that JFS is still here is an indication of the poor quality of these forums. People shouldn't be forced to conform to his bullshit, he should be forced to conform to basic social norms.
        Yep, he was pushing your buttons and you were behaving poorly as well, thus giving him no reason to stop. Then he went on with what he was originally doing which didn't require screaming and insults. It's how the guy is.

        And no, his being here does not indicate poor quality of the forums. His being here indicates a certain lack of civility, I grant that, but it doesn't say anything at all about the quality of the MAists on the board or rather or not those we out really are frauds. And since that's the actual goal of the board, his behavior means nothing in the long run.
        Last edited by Bard of DorAr; 10/27/2005 2:15pm, .

        Comment


          Originally posted by plasmagoat
          It is not when MA experience is used to justify an argument that either has nothing to do with MA or, even if it has something to do with MA, the MA experience is not relevant. For example, we could be talking about our favorite UFC fighters. Now, it's related to MA, but your experience doesn't mean anything. I could simply say who my favorite is, and that would be that. You couldn't use your superior MA experience to "prove" that I'm wrong.
          Your examples are terrible. Instead of coming up with yet another irrelevant example, why don't you just logically justify being here, contiuing to argue with us?!?! Why? Because you can't!
          Last edited by Neildo; 10/27/2005 2:25pm, .
          :new_all_c

          Comment


            Originally posted by plasmagoat
            And you guys think that MA experience is some kind of Holy Grail ...
            Uh ... check it out shitgobbler ... this is a MA FORUM ... get it? You have "none" in the experience department so you rate -0-.

            BTW, you wouldn't cut it on MAP either ... don't flatter yourself. Many of those peeps are dead on serious about their method of choice and really have no interest in twits such as your self. There are more than a few MAP regulars who have met me in person.

            I'm on MAP, come onto one of the threads I'm posting on and start some shit with me. See just how much you are welcomed and encouraged.

            Now ... let's roll up our sleeves and get to work ... shall we? First order of business is for you to clear up this whole issue surrounding your Mother douching with sardines and then laying down with cats. Once we work through that particularly nasty piece of business we really need to buckle down and get serious about your propensity, and partiality, for shoving Gerbils up your ass.

            Comment


              Plas, if you actually met John, trained with him, knew his family and how hard he works for the most vulnerable of people in society, you'd have a very different opinion on him. He is as far as his background is concerned exactly who he says he is, and he's not at all shy of putting himself on the line physically and mentally. He is a goldmine of knowledge and experience, he doesn't suffer fools, but he's also got a terrific sense of humor and is as ready to laugh at himself as he is at anyone else. If you get a chance, meet up with him and train. I've been in martial arts for 40 years and in TCMA for 32 of those, and in that time, I've never met anyone better than him.

              Comment


                See, Plasma, at this point you remind Neil that civility costs nothing, then explain exactly what it is you have to offer to this forum. Really quite simple and it'll get you so much further than complaining that he's beneath you or yelling back at him.

                As for JFS. At this point, you ignore the cat comment as it's irrelevent and untrue, move on, never address or acknowledge it and pretend he never said it. In fact, unless you wish to actually discuss MAP with him, you should ignore his entire post as it offers nothing of remote value to the discussion at hand.

                And in ignoring it you avoid flaming back or having to find some civil answer to it.

                Remember, a man does no insult accusing you of the impossible. So if something's untrue, it's untrue, if it's true, it's not an insult. Either way it's irrelevent.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Ronin
                  You really should look very closely at the ass you are making of yourself.
                  *sigh* ... well ... I'm all out of miner's hats ... he's going to need some serious light with his head so far up his ass and all ... guess I could scrounge around and see if I can find him one ... dunno ...

                  You might want to take a good look at him and see if he's really in Finland as claimed. If he's in the UK then the SPM derail ploy and feeble hatchet job attempt on me makes sense.

                  If he's really in Finland then he's just clueless with no rehabilitation potential. I'm thinking he might serve as decent road way pot hole filler ... just a thought.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Scrapper
                    I responded to your assertion that proof was not required on Bullshido. That statement was incorrect. I corrected it.

                    I do not worship him. I don't worship anyone. He is fucking with people for fun, and I don't mind. Why don't I mind? Because my intelligence precludes me from getting upset over what someone types on an internet forum. If he was lying, misrepresenting himself, or otherwise useless, he would have heard it from me.
                    State one good reason for allowing trolling, spammind, flaming and derailing. What are the benefits, why should such behavior be accepted, encouraged and defended?

                    Furthermore, if you cannot see how 40 years experience in the martial arts buys an individual credibilty and leeway here, than you should leave and go somewhere where civility is enforced.
                    You're right, I don't see it. I see no reason to respect someone only because he has expertise in something.

                    Please clarify: is this exteme or valid? I maintain that is is invalid because it is extreme. JFS is VERIFIABLY a TCMA expert and has wholeheartedly embraced the mission of Bullshido. He hosts a regular recurring throwdown and attacks the problems of modern martial arts. Verfiably. That means we have proof.
                    Well, Saddam was verifiably running a government for a long time, and I think he took it pretty seriously.

                    Once again:

                    What do you bring?
                    Well, I can only say that before I gave up, I brought the (now deleted) book analysis, which I think is a step above posting "hey guys check out this funny video that you've already seen 10 times." Maybe I would have contributed more in time (please notice that I registered only a while ago, I haven't been hanging around for years), but now we'll never know because the forum users have convinced me that it's not worth anyone's time to contribute anything here.

                    Still, what I bring or don't bring is in my opinion irrelevant, because I don't consider MA expertise and acitivity to be a subsitute for personality, manners and sanity.

                    Originally posted by Bard of DorAr
                    Not really. And to be honest, my attempt to engage you here isn't purely about what YOU want. I feel it's important for you to discuss exactly what it is you feel needs to change here, otherwise I can't adequately address it.
                    If you want to know what's wrong, just read the original post of this thread, it pretty much sums it all up. It even carries more authority than I do, because the poster has been here for much longer.

                    On the other hand, I engaged you because there were questions asked by others that you refused/ignored on the basis of them not being in a place to judge you. An example being that you want others to be civil and then you behave poorly, much as they do. You (justifiably) refused to answer that question by JFS on the basis that he's not in a place to talk to you about your civility. Fair enough. I am in a place to question it and I am doing so. You speak of civility and your mouth is stating otherwise. I'm genuinely curious if this is lack of willpower and unintentional, or if you perhaps... are not really after that which you ask for.
                    I wouldn't behave so poorly if I wasn't provoked and exhausted into doing so. Even so, my behavior is polite and civil by Bullshido standards. I mean, anything is civil next to JFS.

                    Keep doing it. Keep trying, keep it up, make sure you only open your mouth on what you have personal experience on. If you can't do that keep everything you say as a question. You want to play by the rules of polite and civil. That's what it takes. And no, you wouldn't have been more successful if you were at JFS's level. Because then the people arguing with you would still be arguing with you and you'd alienate all your potential allies. (Something I might be if you can stay civil long enough for me to make sense of what's going on).
                    There's really no point in keeping it up. By default, people like JFS should be banned on sight, but Bullshido is not an ordinary messageboard. This place is a haven for trolls.

                    Originally posted by Neildo
                    Your examples are terrible. Instead of coming up with yet another irrelevant example, why don't you just logically justify being here, contiuing to argue with us?!?! Why? Because you can't!
                    Why did you suddenly change the subject?

                    Originally posted by Steve Richards
                    Plas, if you actually met John, trained with him, knew his family and how hard he works for the most vulnerable of people in society, you'd have a very different opinion on him. He is as far as his background is concerned exactly who he says he is, and he's not at all shy of putting himself on the line physically and mentally. He is a goldmine of knowledge and experience, he doesn't suffer fools, but he's also got a terrific sense of humor and is as ready to laugh at himself as he is at anyone else. If you get a chance, meet up with him and train. I've been in martial arts for 40 years and in TCMA for 32 of those, and in that time, I've never met anyone better than him.
                    I think I'd rather drink a bucket of my own piss than meet a socially dysfunctional and potentially violent jerkoff like him. The thought that he has a family is pretty fucking disturbing, too.


                    JFS, I'm not responding to you until you start to make some kind of sense again.
                    Last edited by plasmagoat; 10/27/2005 2:31pm, .

                    Comment


                      Plamsagoat,
                      You are a closed minded kid with no notion of anything other than the crap he feeds himself.
                      Grow up.
                      Get a clue.
                      Come back when you have done both.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Ronin
                        Plamsagoat,
                        You are a closed minded kid with no notion of anything other than the crap he feeds himself.
                        Grow up.
                        Get a clue.
                        Come back when you have done both.
                        I can't believe you're telling me to grow up. How about you apply some Bullshido standards and practises to the real world and see how grownup they still seem? Or is reality just something inconvinient and irritating that you guys habitually ignore around here?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Scrapper
                          Once again:

                          What do you bring?

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by plasmagoat
                            I can't believe you're telling me to grow up. How about you apply some Bullshido standards and practises to the real world and see how grownup they still seem? Or is reality just something inconvinient and irritating that you guys habitually ignore around here?

                            Once more, you don't know what you are talking about.
                            John and I have had "discussions" about his use of certain terms and I have told KFDW to chill in regards to spamming and things of that nature.
                            BUT, just like I won't censor YOU, I won't do it to them either.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by plasmagoat
                              State one good reason for allowing trolling, spammind, flaming and derailing. What are the benefits, why should such behavior be accepted, encouraged and defended?
                              There aren't any, there also aren't any direct flaws. It offends a few thin skinned people, true, but in the overall angle it doesn't drive away serious martial artists and it doesn't actually affect his legitemacy as a fighter himself. On top of all that, he doesn't behave that way to legitemate fighters who come here, only to certain few others. So, as you so like to say, your point is irrelevent.

                              Originally posted by plasmagoat
                              You're right, I don't see it. I see no reason to respect someone only because he has expertise in something.
                              That's illogical from the get go. No one says you have to respect the whole person, or that you can't despise certain behaviors. But to put it simply, it's like not respecting an actor's ability to act because he's a psycho in real life. I can despise a person and still respect their skill and knowledge. Which leads into..

                              Originally posted by plasmagoat
                              Well, Saddam was verifiably running a government for a long time, and I think he took it pretty seriously.
                              Illogical, JFS is not killing people on the side while sharing MA knowledge. Saddam was not sharing his knowledge of how to run a govt (something he did Poorly IMO).

                              Originally posted by plasmagoat
                              Well, I can only say that before I gave up, I brought the (now deleted) book analysis, which I think is a step above posting "hey guys check out this funny video that you've already seen 10 times." Maybe I would have contributed more in time (please notice that I registered only a while ago, I haven't been hanging around for years), but now we'll never know because the forum users have convinced me that it's not worth anyone's time to contribute anything here.
                              So keep up that vein.

                              Originally posted by plasmagoat
                              Still, what I bring or don't bring is in my opinion irrelevant, because I don't consider MA expertise and acitivity to be a subsitute for personality, manners and sanity.
                              It is completely relevent. The site isn't a casual discussion site, there's a mission, there's a purpose and people are expected to contribute to it. You don't have to, true, but that doesn't change that it should be there.

                              Originally posted by plasmagoat
                              If you want to know what's wrong, just read the original post of this thread, it pretty much sums it all up. It even carries more authority than I do, because the poster has been here for much longer.
                              I was there for that. We debated that through, came to a conclusion (Part of which involved that the underage girl was not known to be underaged and took no offense to begin with). Since then we talked a bit more and moved on. You're not saying anything new or contributing to the changes you want.

                              Originally posted by plasmagoat
                              I wouldn't behave so poorly if I wasn't provoked and exhausted into doing so. Even so, my behavior is polite and civil by Bullshido standards. I mean, anything is civil next to JFS.
                              Which says you lack willpower. Honestly, perhaps this isn't a place for you then. If one lacks the willpower to behave the way they want to be in the face of literally anything, then they need to stay in a society that thinks for them so they'll never be tested. This really means you don't belong here, sorry. And an aside... Tangenting into an attack on someone else is poor form and unhelpful to your wants.

                              Originally posted by plasmagoat
                              There's really no point in keeping it up. By default, people like JFS should be banned on sight, but Bullshido is not an ordinary messageboard. This place is a haven for trolls.
                              No, people like JFS should be banned from forums that require or demand civility and polite discourse. Either by wants of the Admin or the nature of the forum itself. Neither apply to this forum. There's some morons here, don't get me wrong, but their stupidity lies in what they say and what they think, not the manner in which they say it.

                              Originally posted by plasmagoat
                              I think I'd rather drink a bucket of my own piss than meet a socially dysfunctional and potentially violent jerkoff like him. The thought that he has a family is pretty fucking disturbing, too.
                              And here you slide back into random insults and whining. Why? Because someone suggested you might want to get to know him better? This shows lack of forsight, lack of wisdom and inability to ever let your opinions be changed in the face of new evidence. It speaks poorly... For you.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Ronin
                                Once more, you don't know what you are talking about.
                                Oh, I think I do.

                                John and I have had "discussions" about his use of certain terms and I have told KFDW to chill in regards to spamming and things of that nature.
                                BUT, just like I won't censor YOU, I won't do it to them either.
                                It's not a binary choice. You can censore certain people and leave others alone. Here's how most forums do it: spammers and completely blatant and disruptive trolls (such as JFS and KFDW) are eventually banned. Rational and at least somewhat civilized people, however, stay. This way, there's less bullshit and more relevant content, with no harmful side-effects.

                                Comment

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