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A New Look at Scoring MMA

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  • chrisc
    replied
    Originally posted by REALIST1 View Post
    i get what ur saying but anytime i see someone pulling guard is when they are a: in trouble b: tired or c: can't stop what the other person is doing. this is not the 90's gracie UFC anymore
    There are some fighters would prefer to have someone in their guard. Nog tried pulling guard against Randy even when he was winning the stand up.

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  • t3h d3adly
    replied
    I think this would be a major improvement... If half the judges weren't retarded.

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  • MMAMickey
    replied
    you are correct, for the second time.
    we are not referring to the gracies, we are referring to modern MMA

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  • REALIST1
    replied
    i get what ur saying but anytime i see someone pulling guard is when they are a: in trouble b: tired or c: can't stop what the other person is doing. this is not the 90's gracie UFC anymore

    Leave a comment:


  • List
    replied
    Originally posted by Neo Sigma View Post
    True. But in the context of scoring an MMA fight, how many people really have the ground skills to immediately turn pulling guard into an advantageous position, as opposed to their opponent immediately throwing punches from the guard?
    Not necessarily relevant. If you pull guard and the guy on top pwns you he's probably winning the striking and possibly landing "heavy strikes", which outweighs the .5 points you got for pulling guard. Basically, you don't need to be able to do anything with it to get the half point. You get points for getting the guy on the ground where you want him, if it turns out to be a bad decision the consequences seem to outweigh the half point.

    It's an easier/lower energy way to get the fight to the ground, but it's also higher risk once you get there. There's a potential problem with fighters pulling guard at the end of the round to score .5 points, which is just silly. I suppose you could make it so that pulling guard won't be scored in the last ~45 seconds of a round. Another option would be to decrease the points gained to .25 to decrease the incentive for wonky strategies.

    Of course judges are generally so inept that making the scoring system this complex would lead to a lot of questionable decisions.

    Originally posted by Hesperus View Post
    Let's talk about this, 'cause it's much better than the goofy point crap.
    There are potential issues with "A threatening submission attempt is any grappling hold in which the threatened fighter must use counter grappling measures to prevent being submitted." Pretty much any submission attempt requires the threatened fighter to use some sort of submission defense. If interpreted too loosely one ends up with Budo Challenge levels of sillyness with chained super low probability submission attempts.

    Obviously a 10 point must based system is far more likely to be implemented, so Fagan's system is a good start.

    Leave a comment:


  • REALIST1
    replied
    i agree pulling guard should not be pointed, all this does is put the person in greater striking position. This is not Gracie combatives were talking about where you can't punch the guy in the face.

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  • Hesperus
    replied
    Let's talk about this, 'cause it's much better than the goofy point crap.

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  • Bohemian Nights
    replied
    I don't think the problem is neccesarily the rules, but more likely the judges themselves. Between forgetting stuff (like the aforementioned reversals/takedowns.) Judges just might not be educated enough on what constitutes a reversal, or what's a proper takedown.

    To be fair, any time you have live judges there will always be issues, and MMA isn't unique here. The difference between a bad judging call in, say, soccer and MMA is that in soccer the judges don't decide who wins if the match goes a full ninety minutes without any goals, but you'll still have equally disastrous calls.
    I imagine most people here don't follow soccer, but the recent match between France and Ireland had a french player touch the ball with his hands twice before fumbling it into the goal, in clear violation of the rules, but if a judge doesn't catch it then and there, there's nothing to be done.
    Same thing goes for MMA, even if you check out the statistics after a controversial fight and see that the losing fighter had more clean takedowns, hits, sweeps or whatever, the decision is set, and unfortunately you can't go back on the decision of a live set of judges.

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  • nifoc
    replied
    Having read through most of the current scoring system for Unified MMA, my impression was not that it was in any way poorly thought through or particularly bad. Mostly, my thought was "have the Judges actually studied this document??". It just seems that they forget certain parts over and over again.

    For example: In the UFC 106 thread, Fighting Cepholapod (IIRC) posted an excerpt of the rules in which it clearly states that a reversal is worth as much as a takedown. This seems to be often forgotten.

    I would say that before we start changing the rules we should make sure the judges are better educated on them.

    The only change I'd really like to see is to have the judges score the fight as a whole rather than by round (one of the good rules in PRIDE).

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  • Zapruder
    replied
    Originally posted by Neo Sigma View Post
    True. But in the context of scoring an MMA fight, how many people really have the ground skills to immediately turn pulling guard into an advantageous position, as opposed to their opponent immediately throwing punches from the guard?
    Well with the scoring system the way it is they would still get out scored...but if they do have the skills...

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  • dwak
    replied
    all takedowns are not however equal, pulling guard should not be scored as highly as a slam, I don't care who is doing it, and yes takedowns which lead to nothing should count, they hurt and suck way more energy out of the person being taken down than you'd think. many takedowns can hurt much worse than hard strikes, and often can have a much greater impact on the outcome of a fight. they should be scored as such. if you get points for winning the striking element you should also get points for winning the grappling element, under this system a fighter could be doing better in the stand up for 2 minutes, land a hard strike, then get taken down, mounted, beat on, and escape several submissions and still earn more points. as to the 'lay and pray' control is a part of fighting, and a significant one, if you are controlling a person, you are beating them. these rules it seems to me favor strikers, and may lead to a WCL type of fighting.

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  • Hesperus
    replied
    Originally posted by Neo Sigma View Post
    how many people really have the ground skills to immediately turn pulling guard into an advantageous position, as opposed to their opponent immediately throwing punches from the guard?
    Every single one of them that does it, and no more or no less.

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  • Kintanon
    replied
    I'm just saying. Guard pulling is not a SKILL-LESS take down. It does take skill to effectively pull guard without getting fucked up.

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  • Neo Sigma
    replied
    Who chose where the fight went?
    True. But in the context of scoring an MMA fight, how many people really have the ground skills to immediately turn pulling guard into an advantageous position, as opposed to their opponent immediately throwing punches from the guard?

    Leave a comment:


  • Zapruder
    replied
    Originally posted by Beorn View Post
    First off, its Ruben Charles. Second, that is pure grappling, not MMA. Third, though he is pulling his opponent down aggresively, you still can't tell me that what he is doing is as advantageous or as technically demanding as a traditional takedown.
    Who chose where the fight went?

    Aoki in an MMA example.

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