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    Kids MMA, rules, head gear, etc.

    I'd like to get as much input from the BS community as possible without making a mess on KK's My First Fight thread.

    I would like to propose a set of rules for mixed matches involving young kids (under 13) and young teens (13-15 or 13-16) that address the issue of grappling and head gear that have come up in other debates about ammy MMA competition, and the broader issue of the younger group grappling for subs.

    Floating an initial suggestion:

    For the younger group (? - 13)

    Matches consist of 2 2-minute rounds with a 1 minute break between rounds.

    The first round is fought with boxing head gear:
    * No knees or elbows are allowed.
    * Throws and takedowns are allowed, but no groundfighting of any kind is permitted.

    The second round is fought without head gear:
    * No head strikes of any kind.
    * No knees or elbows are allowed.
    * Throws and takedowns are allowed, and grappling for a pin is allowed.
    * No submision holds of any kind.

    For the older group (13-15 or 16)

    Matches consist of 2 2-minute rounds with a 1 minute break between rounds.

    The first round is fought with boxing head gear:
    * No knees to the head or any elbow-strikes are allowed.
    * Throws and takedowns are allowed, but no groundfighting of any kind is permitted.

    The second round is fought without head gear:
    * No head strikes of any kind are allowed
    * No elbows are allowed.
    * Knees to the body are permitted
    * Throws and takedowns are allowed, and grappling for upperbody submission is permitted.
    * No lower-body submissions are allowed.

    Scoring should be done exactly as it would be for older fighters under full rules at the event in question, with no fixed point awards for any specific techniques.

    Your thoughts on this are much appreciated.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 6/10/2009 2:34pm, .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

    #2
    i'd rather my (hypothetical) 10 year old son get choked than get punched in the head

    Comment


      #3
      You might want to take a look at how combat sambo handles it.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Mtripp View Post
        You might want to take a look at how combat sambo handles it.
        Do you have a link?
        Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


        KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

        In De Janerio, in blackest night,
        Luta Livre flees the fight,
        Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
        Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

        Comment


          #5
          I think it should be 9-12, heelhooks and headkicks only.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Hesperus View Post
            I think it should be 9-12, heelhooks and headkicks only.
            how about doing the first round as alternating head kicks and the second round with playing "mercy" with heel hooks. whoever lasts the longest combined time wins!

            Comment


              #7
              lol. Real suggestions please. Future of the sport, safety of the next generation and all.
              Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


              KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

              In De Janerio, in blackest night,
              Luta Livre flees the fight,
              Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
              Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

              Comment


                #8
                My only comment is that it might be tough for kids to remember the rules for that specific round. Especially if they're tired and frustrated. If somebody throws a head strike (or just misses and strikes the chin) their opponent won't be wearing headgear and then you could have a problem.

                You could do 1 round with pure kickboxing, with full sized boxing gloves, head gear and shinpads. Between rounds lose the protection and gloves and do pure grappling in the second. It would only take a second for the corner to cut the wraps off. Grappling with gloves and shinpads is tough anyway. (Whatever rules about limited strikes/submissions you want.)

                Groundfighting or GnP is a tough issue for me. Even a strike to the body from a mount can be vicious. The ref would have to be ultra-conservative when deciding if a kid is defending themselves and when to stop a fight. I'd say lose groundfighting altogether.

                It loses some of its MMA/UFC appeal but they have plenty of time for that if they want to go ammy.
                Last edited by willieo; 6/10/2009 5:29pm, .

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by willieo View Post
                  My only comment is that it might be tough for kids to remember the rules for that specific round. Especially if they're tired and frustrated. If somebody throws a head strike (or just misses and strikes the chin) their opponent won't be wearing headgear and then you could have a problem.

                  You could do 1 round with pure kickboxing, with full sized boxing gloves, head gear and shinpads. Between rounds lose the protection and gloves and do pure grappling in the second. It would only take a second for the corner to cut the wraps off. Grappling with gloves and shinpads is tough anyway. (Whatever rules about limited strikes/submissions you want.)

                  Groundfighting or GnP is a tough issue for me. Even a strike to the body from a mount can be vicious. The ref would have to be ultra-conservative when deciding if a kid is defending themselves and when to stop a fight. I'd say lose groundfighting altogether.

                  It loses some of its MMA/UFC appeal but they have plenty of time for that if they want to go ammy.
                  No gnp in any circumstance.

                  I don't think its too hard to remember the "no head shots" rule when you're looking at someone's unprotected head. Maybe you're right though.

                  The reason for the gear on in the second phase is that there is no harm in it and the experience training and competing with the gear on is relevant to more advanced competition. It was training grappling without the mma on gear that got my kid choked unconscious by his headgear, not that I'm proposing grappling with headgear(!)

                  Also, its a lot simpler to just remove the headgear than strip off all the pads.

                  Does that make sense?
                  Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                  KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                  In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                  Luta Livre flees the fight,
                  Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                  Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I don't really see the benefit in having this as two rounds of one match rather than separate events or tournaments.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
                      I don't really see the benefit in having this as two rounds of one match rather than separate events or tournaments.
                      The idea would be to let the kids use the full range of techniques in a single match. Shidokan competition is similar.

                      Its actually pretty simple: In the second round, the headgear comes off, head shots become illegal, and grappling is in play. The first round is basically SanDa but without the nutty scoring.

                      Taken together the kids will get to use the full range of techniques they will use in a single round when they get older.
                      Last edited by Matt Phillips; 6/10/2009 6:19pm, .
                      Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                      KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                      In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                      Luta Livre flees the fight,
                      Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                      Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Just another idea… how about making it 3 rounds instead of two?

                        First round: Full gear kickboxing, clinching, but no throwing. No elbows or knees.

                        Second round: Throws and takedowns. Judo throws, tripping, single legs and so on… no striking.

                        Third round: All grappling, with appropriate age level rules in place.

                        Score all three round best 2 out of 3 wins.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by lionknight View Post

                          First round: Full gear kickboxing, clinching, but no throwing. No elbows or knees.



                          Third round: All grappling, with appropriate age level rules in place.

                          Score all three round best 2 out of 3 wins.
                          That's possible. I kept the 2 2-minute rounds from the juniors ammy shooto rules. I think a shorter fight is generally safer, and a single shift in rules is easier for everyone to keep track of. What do the rest of you think?
                          Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                          KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                          In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                          Luta Livre flees the fight,
                          Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                          Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            You should take a look at Fightleague . Org and read their amateur mma rules. Those rules apply to kids as young as 6 and after observing several of there events the rule set enforced by Two Ref's provides for a safe framework for kids to compete in amateur mma. You can also find many videos on youtube of kids competing in these events.

                            Why would you want to eliminate submission grappling? Take a look at NAGA and Grapplers Quest, thousands of kids compete every year in those events ( BJJ/Submission Grappling )

                            Cheers

                            Comment


                              #15
                              As a 16 year old, this is honestly an offensive suggestion. I roll and spar with full grown men just like anyone else. I don't see why a 17 year old should be allowed to compete in amateur MMA, but I should be forced to have a watered down barely kickboxing, barely grappling contest.

                              Intelligence and maturity aren't a huge factor at 16...note the ability to drive.

                              I'd say the upper age limit for rules like that should be 14. But then I'd also say those rules are silly in general.

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