BJJ in MMA

[Grappler]

Sometimes I watch MMA, and a BJJ blackbelt or otherwise skilled submission grappler after taking down his opponent will be stuck there unable to do anything just because their opponent has blue belt level sub defense. They usually have to resort to ground and pound, which although effective, isn't as satisfying for a BJJ guy to watch as a clean submission victory. Exambles: Renzo Gracie and Damian Maia, obviously. Also Masakatsu Funaki vs Bas Rutten was pretty sad to watch when Funaki took down Bas but couldn't do anything because Bas held his hands tight to his chest. Funaki was freely transitioning on the ground but got nowhere.

So here is a list of BJJ moves I remember seeing in MMA off the top of my head. Obviously a lot of moves are harder to pull off with striking involved, no gi and a purely defensive, explosive opponent. Still the second category is moves I think should be seen more often.

Moves seen in MMA/Moves rarely seen in MMA
Armbar from sidemount/ Paintbrush from sidemount or mount
RNC /Shin chokes
Gulliotine/ S-Mount
Kimura /Mounted triangle
Ankle lock/heel hook Baseball bat choke
Kneebar /Sweeps when opponent stands

This is just off the top of my head. Which bjj moves would you like to see in the cage? Discuss!

[Gabetuno]

I'd like to see you get Ban-barred from WTFPWN3Dmount.

[theotherserge]

Srsly^ can we move this thread to MAP?

Yeeaahhhh, that would be a greaaat.

[ignatzami]

This is just off the top of my head. Which bjj moves would you like to see in the cage? Discuss!

This is like asking why we don't see certain Judo throws in competition, or why we don't see flying backfists in Boxing..... we see what works. We see high percentage techniques executed against another highly skilled conditioned athlete. I can throw Osoto Makikomi against a white belt all day long and even if it's sloppy as hell I'll pull it off. I throw the same against a black belt and I need to be either stupidly quick, have perfect kuzushi or I'm going for a ride.

And no, there is no discussion. If you don't like the subs you see in MMA then get fit, get trained, get a fight, and try and pull off a flying naked rolling googoplatta!

[Gabetuno]

Moves seen in MMA/Moves rarely seen in MMA
Armbar from sidemount/ Paintbrush from sidemount or mount
RNC /Shin chokes
Gulliotine/ S-Mount
Kimura /Mounted triangle
Ankle lock/heel hook Baseball bat choke
Kneebar /Sweeps when opponent stands

It's not even like saying that, frankly, because a lot of the things he's recommending don't even work that well in strictly grappling sparring, let alone MMA when the skill and athleticism of everyone seems to increase significantly (with the exception of the odd duck here and there).

Paintbrush/Americana from mount isn't even that recommended as a move unless you have superior strength, but even then, you are probably gonna get rolled against an experienced guy. Mounted triangle and Kimura... because those NEVER happen in MMA... Grappler, wtf?!?!

Oh and what the fuck is a baseball bat choke? You mean baseball choke?

And RNC's like NEVER happen...

Where do you e-train, Grappler?

[ignatzami]

Where do you e-train, Grappler?

He doesn't....

[Hesperus]

why we don't see flying backfists in Boxing.....

There are actually rules against that one.

[ignatzami]

There are actually rules against that one.

Picky, Picky, Picky!

[Gabetuno]

Oh c'mon, I asked him where he e-trained... surely you picked up the sarcasm.

[CoffeeFan]

It's not even like saying that, frankly, because a lot of the things he's recommending don't even work that well in strictly grappling sparring, let alone MMA when the skill and athleticism of everyone seems to increase significantly (with the exception of the odd duck here and there).

Paintbrush/Americana from mount isn't even that recommended as a move unless you have superior strength, but even then, you are probably gonna get rolled against an experienced guy. Mounted triangle and Kimura... because those NEVER happen in MMA... Grappler, wtf?!?!

Oh and what the fuck is a baseball bat choke? You mean baseball choke?

And RNC's like NEVER happen...

Where do you e-train, Grappler?

I think it's the way he was wording it that came off as being confusing. He has two lists here, moves he see's a lot in MMA and moves he rarely sees:

Moves seen a lot in MMA
Armbar from Side Mount
RNC
Gulliotine
Kimura
Ankle lock/heel hook
Kneebar

Moves rarely seen a lot in MMA
Paintbrush from side control or mount
Shin chokes
S- Mount
Mounted Triangle
Baseball Choke
Sweeps when opponent stands

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 PM ----------

As you said Gabe, the moves he wonders why they don't do either don't work that well or aren't appropriate for MMA

1) Paintbrush from side control or mount

I see people going for this move from side control a lot, doing it from mount is usually not as a good idea cause it's easier to get sweept.

2)Shin chokes

I've seen it in MMA before
http://www.truveo.com/nick-diaz-Gogoplata/id/651353932

The reason you don't see more of it is cause it's generally a low percentage choke that works when a person doesn't know it's coming. Now that everyone knows about it, it's less valuable.

3) S- Mount

People do it but usually fall right into an armbar rather then sitting there all day. It's MMA not a grappling tournament after all

4) Mounted triangle

Again, you see this move done ass well, although most people choose to to keep the position and punch repeatedly to the face rather then actually try to finish the choke

5) Baseball Choke

Are you serious?

6) Sweeps when opponent stands.

It happens but generally when a person stands up that means they are about to unload on your face, Better to stand up with then or protect yourself rather then try a sweep that will let you get punched in the head

[Gabetuno]

The problem with the Americana, which is a move I am able to finish often, is that people do it wrong. They make no effort to isolate, which is really the key, and they usually get to high and rolled. It's all about the cinch at the beginning. Pulling the arm into an acute V allows the muscles to become less effective, and the angle of finish to be arrived at much more quickly. Also, a lot of "argument" can be taken out of the bottom man if you just roll the wrist of the hand that's grabbing your wrist, as if you were doing a forearm exercise.

[ignatzami]

I finish Americana's all the time, I actually find a Kimura to be harder to do. Though I tend to get mine from mount and side control with equal frequency.

[Grappler]

1) That's a rubber guard shin choke. I was talking about one from sidemount.
2) I've never tried a baseball bat choke from sidemount in mma sparring. In bjj rolling I find it pretty easy to get whether the opponent knows it's coming or not. To be fair, I usually trick my opponents into passing my guard and finish them with it as they pass. Pretty cool.
3) Where have you seen a mounted triangle or s-mount? I wouldn't mind a video.
4) It is easy to transition from a paintbrush from mount to a paintbrush from sidemount to a kimura from sidemount if necessary or to a straght armlock.

[ignatzami]

I actually find that a tie-off to S-Mount to Americana confuses the hell out of most Judoka.

---------- Post added at 04:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------

Where have you seen a mounted triangle or s-mount? I wouldn't mind a video.

S-Mount shows up in Judo comps all the time. I have a video of myself at the Penn Open getting S-Mount. Couldn't manage to do anything once I got there but hey, details.

[Gabetuno]

1) That's a rubber guard shin choke. I was talking about one from sidemount.
2) I've never tried a baseball bat choke from sidemount in mma sparring. In bjj rolling I find it pretty easy to get whether the opponent knows it's coming or not. To be fair, I usually trick my opponents into passing my guard and finish them with it as they pass. Pretty cool.
3) Where have you seen a mounted triangle or s-mount? I wouldn't mind a video.

3) Every D. Maia fight ever.

2) It's a baseball choke, and you saw that on a video. Getting this move no gi from bottom is an impossibility as far as I'm aware. It's only possible from bottom with a gi.

1) What the fuck is a shin choke if you don't mean gogoplata? Do you mean a locoplata, like a gogo from S?
In which case, please see Vinny Magalaesh's fight against that big dumb white hick in last season's The Ultimate Fighter. He finishes it as an armbar/shoulder lock.