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Chuck Liddel jumps on the Kimbo hate bandwagon

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    #16
    Originally posted by Kambei Shimada
    The thing is Kimbo is'nt exactly good for the sport of MMA.

    MMA has enough stigma attached to it already and many people have been working hard to distance the sport from any association with street brawling.
    That's an asinine statement. MMA will always be stigmatized with our without Kimbo, and that in no way, shape or manner should condone disaproving of Kimbo (or anyone for that matter) who wants to participate and compete.

    A man should not be judge for how he has conducted himself in the past. And to be honest, what exactly has Kimbo done that is so wrong and stigmatizing?

    Let's understand exactly what street brawling is - it is looking for fights, starting fights, attacking people, assaulting people, initiating disorderly conduct, harassing people and getting them into a physical confrontation against their will.

    Kimbo has not done that. He has organized bare-knuckle fights where two men have agreed to participate. They come, they agree to the rules and location, they bang, a winner is announced and they go home. This is far better and acceptable than the famous dojo stormings of Gracie fame.

    That some people may disagree with that? Fuck that shit. People disagree with MMA. Fuck, there is people who disagree with boxing, or even children playing fucking tag!!!

    So, fuck that shit. I'd say entering into MMA is the best thing Kimbo could to do formalize - not legitimize - himself as a fighter. I'd also say that Kimbo formally entering MMA is a good thing for MMA. It brings an image, appeals to a greater audience, and so far, his demeanour as a MMA fighter, however novice he may be, has been exemplar.

    Originally posted by Kambei Shimada
    (For this reason I dont think Dana will ever sign Kimbo to the UFC.)
    Dana will sign Baal and Beelzebub to gangbang his grandma if it is in the UFC's interests. Bizness is bizness. He won't sign him today, but there is no telling what would happen 3, 4 years from now.

    Originally posted by Kambei Shimada
    Besides knocking out a bunch of nobodys and out of shape ageing fighters is not a big deal and should'nt be treated as such.IMO
    The fact that he was willing to bang is to be respected. And the fact that those nobodies as you call them stepped up and took their beatings, that deservers far more respect and has a lot more to do with what martial arts are about that what many keyboard warriors out there think.

    One should only get to call someone a nobody if he is a somebody. But that's not the way of the interweebz, so, here we are.

    It is a big deal because it happened, in a controlled environment (rather than in a brawl), upon mutually agreed rules (rather than assaulting people), for the sake of competing or simply for the sake of banging. In this time and age of wimps, it is a big deal.

    And now Kimbo is stepping onto MMA under formal training. Fucking great for him.

    Originally posted by Kambei Shimada
    Kimbo has'nt fought a quality opponent yet and until he does we dont really know how good he is.
    The more reason to applaud his willingness to train MMA and compete in MMA.

    Originally posted by Kambei Shimada
    I would like to see him up aginst one of these guys:
    Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Fedor Emelianenko, Randy Couture, Tim Sylvia , Josh Barnett, Andrei Arlovski, Frank Mir, Fabricio Werdum, Gabriel Gonzaga, Mirko Filipovic,Heath Herring
    Name dropping FTW!!!!!

    No. I'd actually would like to see him fight one of the many heavyweight MMAers that may not be on the top, but who are still legitimate treats to him. That would be a more reasonable spectacle, and a more reasonable progression for him.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 4/03/2008 7:53am, .
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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

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      #17
      Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn
      Except that Liddel's takedown defence consists of good hips and a supernatural sprawl, whereas Cung's consists of a greasy wad of bill thrust into the hands of his opponents.
      Yeah, except no.

      Comment


        #18
        I think you guys are reading a lot more into Chuck's statements than are actually there. From my reading of it his primary issue was not with Kimbo, he didn't say Kimbo was a jerk, or a bad fighter or anything. He said that Kimbo was being promoted beyond his current accomplishments. Which I think we all agree is true. His org is going apeshit billing him as some unstoppable killing machine. Kimbo himself is very humble and understands that he's new to the MMA game and has a lot to learn, but the promoters of EliteXC are nothing of the sort. According them he's the baddest MOFO on the block. My reading of Chuck's interview indicates that he has more of a problem with the promoters than with Kimbo personally.
        sigpic

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          #19
          MMA will always be stigmatized with our without Kimbo, and that in no way, shape or manner should condone disaproving of Kimbo (or anyone for that matter) who wants to participate and compete.
          I don't believe it always will be stigmatized. Either way, the fact that the uninformed stigmatize it for WRONG reasons doesn't mean we should just say, screw it! Let's let whatever POS thug that wants to jump in the cage do it!

          Also, real keen on letting that POS nazi Costa compete, are ya, Macho? Because that's what you just said.

          A man should not be judge for how he has conducted himself in the past.
          Really? What the hell else are you gonna judge someone on? What they _say_ they're going to do in the future? lol If he's "changed" he's gonna have to show it before I believe it.

          what exactly has Kimbo done that is so wrong and stigmatizing?
          He's a criminal who has been in and out of jail and prison his whole life. He's admitted some of his incarceration was for violence and he's most likely also stolen from people and done who knows what else.

          Look, here's the simple truth of the matter. Kimbo sux as a fighter and is a criminal who has acted like a POS for most of his life thus far. Frankly, I don't know why any educated fight fan would want him in the sport.

          Comment


            #20
            Kimbo may or may not suck but until he fights decent competition we'll never know.

            Elite is in a tough position, on one hand there's a buzz around Kimbo on the other he's vastly in experienced.

            They need him but how do you build a franchise around someone you're not sure can beat a decent B level fighter.

            I respect Kimbo's work ethic but he's in a tough position I don't think he can live up to.

            Comment


              #21
              Why are people insisting a guy with 2 fights under his belt take on the top fighters in his division?

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Odacon
                Why are people insisting a guy with 2 fights under his belt take on the top fighters in his division?
                The internet.
                Originally posted by Goju - joe
                being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.

                Comment


                  #23
                  I understand how Chuck feels about Kimbo's promoters, but he didn't have to say it. Makes him sound kind of jealous of these MMA newcomers (Brock) having more fame and draw than him. I say Kimbo vs Liddell with spiked brass knuckles.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn
                    Except that Liddel's takedown defence consists of good hips and a supernatural sprawl, whereas Cung's consists of a greasy wad of bill thrust into the hands of his opponents.
                    Fail.

                    Sherdog is calling.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by It is Fake
                      Fail.

                      Sherdog is calling.
                      Shamrock did it to himself, no question, but did you watch the goddamn Fryklund fight?

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Yeah, tell me at what point in that fight Fryklund had a chance to get a takedown that he did not capitalize on.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn
                          Shamrock did it to himself, no question, but did you watch the goddamn Fryklund fight?
                          Yes I did.

                          Did you watch the Duane Ludwig fight?

                          I know we have now entered the twilight zone because all I hear is the "grapplers don't take down Cung" fixed fight.

                          Take a good hard look at the records of those 5 fighters and get back to me. Only one had a significant winning past with submissions.

                          The rest were either losing to submissions or almost 50/50 either way.

                          So this whole grappling/takedown argument is stupid.

                          *EDIT*Just as dumb as the fixed fight argument. He cherry picked his opponents to pad his record IMO.
                          Last edited by It is Fake; 4/03/2008 12:22pm, .

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Matt W.
                            I don't believe it always will be stigmatized. Either way, the fact that the uninformed stigmatize it for WRONG reasons doesn't mean we should just say, screw it! Let's let whatever POS thug that wants to jump in the cage do it!
                            If someone is cleared to participate and there are no legal rules that preclude him from doing so, then yes. Let the chips fall where they may.

                            Originally posted by Matt W.
                            Also, real keen on letting that POS nazi Costa compete, are ya, Macho? Because that's what you just said.
                            Costa can compete if he wishes. The constitution allows for klanners to gather, why should then Costa (or any other supremacist) be forbidden from competing?

                            I believe he's a POS as he still advocates racial supremacists POVs. It is not something he has done before and stopped doing it, but something he does up to this day and there is no debate on it. I'm not judging him for something he did before and which he had paid for, but for something that he's currently and actively doing now.

                            And yet, I'm not going to declare a jihad and demand that he be taken away his right and opportunity to compete. Let him compete and let the chips fall where they may. Same with Kimbo.

                            Kimbo did his time and paid his dues. And now he's trying to be legit. Do you have an specific charge against him, now, for something that he is doing now and for which he must pay now? Otherwise, it's just opinionated smoke blowing.

                            He committed crimes and he paid his dues. You don't charge men twice for something they have already been convicted and made paid for. Unless you have further charges that must be prosecuted, all this is simply witch hunting.

                            Originally posted by Matt W.
                            Really? What the hell else are you gonna judge someone on? What they _say_ they're going to do in the future?
                            Yes in combination with what they are doing today. That's how you judge people, but taking a totalility of past AND present actions (and promises of future actions suggested by current actions.)

                            What exactly is he doing today that he needs to be charged or judged for?

                            Originally posted by Matt W.
                            lol
                            Yeah, lol.

                            Originally posted by Matt W.
                            If he's "changed" he's gonna have to show it before I believe it.
                            That is fine and dandy. If you choose not to believe he has changed, that's fine. But that doesn't preclude Kimbo (or anyone who has already paid for his crimes) to seek a new start.

                            If he's still a criminal, oh shit then, we made a mistake in giving him the benefit of the doubt. If he instead shows that he's a reformed man, then you simply went to judge him because of your dislike for him.

                            Originally posted by Matt W.
                            He's a criminal who has been in and out of jail and prison his whole life. He's admitted some of his incarceration was for violence and he's most likely also stolen from people and done who knows what else.
                            And he paid for it. Now if you have concrete evidence against him for things he is still doing now, let's hear it.

                            Originally posted by Matt W.
                            Look, here's the simple truth of the matter.
                            It is the simple interpretation of things which you have chosen to take as truth.

                            Originally posted by Matt W.
                            Kimbo sux as a fighter
                            As a MMA fighter maybe.

                            Originally posted by Matt W.
                            and is a criminal who has acted like a POS for most of his life thus far.
                            And he paid for it. Double jeopardy?

                            Originally posted by Matt W.
                            Frankly, I don't know why any educated fight fan would want him in the sport.
                            Because it is a subjective issue, a matter of opinion. The guy can fight, he's training MMA legitimaly and so far he has not done anything that warrants him to go to prison or anything like that.

                            Then there is the other side of the coin where he was a criminal and POS. Whether that has bearing on who he is know or what he's capable of doing in the future, that's for you/I to believe or doubt.
                            Last edited by Teh El Macho; 4/03/2008 12:23pm, .
                            Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

                            My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

                            New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

                            t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

                            The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Who the hell says he's been in prison or that he's acted like a 'POS'? Or are we just assuming for some reason I wouldn't dream of speculating on?
                              http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ki...part/708578209

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Apparently, there was a bogus interview saying he spent 10 years in prison. I don't know because, I really never looked into the matter.

                                I wouldn't be surprised if it was a planted to push his "streetfighter" image.

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