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    #46
    Originally posted by Knightmare
    Not a good coach?

    Producing Frank Shamrock, Pete Williams, Guy Mezger, Vernon White, Mikey Burnett, and cross training with a slew of other MMA greats doesn't make you a good coach?

    Hell he worked with Maurice Smith prior to his heavyweight match with Coleman and we all know what happened there....

    He'd be an awesome coach. He's worked with everyone and their mother and the facts dont lie.

    Yes, submissions are old and out of date. Considering theyve been around for thousands of years.

    And btw, I have been watching UFC as long if not longer than you.

    My cousin got me into it when he was a teenager and I was a young tike.( Rented tapes and watched my first PPV when Oleg won his tourney - who also was trained by Ken Shamrock btw...)

    What is this strange feeling...? I'm acctualy agreeing with what KM has to say for once.... :new_Eyecr :eatbaby:

    I feel dirty...

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by PEtrainer
      Bda techniques:
      Falling repatedly. It did not work against Rich Franklin.

      Turning your back and getting punched in the head by Sakuraba and getting KO'ed

      And making yourself and the sport your should have been an ambassador of look stupid by becoming a joke in the WWF. This hall of famer returned to MMA in 2000 and did not get a fight in the UFC until 2002. I think that says something.

      Shamrock just has not evolved. Look at the difference between him and a fighter like Franklin or GSP. They are faster, more fluid, fight smarter, take less punnishment, adapt better. Guys like Frye, Shamrock, Severn are great fighters. But watch their fights side by side with the "new" fighters, world of difference. Shamrock fights all or nothing, leaving himself open to a lot of punnishment. Not a good way to win a fight.

      I used to love Frank Shamrock, he was awesoeme in the 90's because he showed how being diverse would be the evolution of martial arts. But I really think he is outclassed by todays fighters who combine styles so fluidly there is no glaring weakness in thier game.

      Do you really think that Shamrock would go the distance against Chuck Liddlell? I think if they fought he may take 1 out of 5. Or how about when the UFC first rolled out? Take it old school for Shamrock with no weight classes. Hughes, Franklin, Arlovski, GSP, Mir, Sylvia, would kill him. I don't think he would go more than 2 rounds with any of those guys.

      But this is the single most important part coaching. Lions den fighters (from their site):
      Alex Andrade - "El Toro"
      Atilla Bodor
      Jerry Bohlander
      Mickey Burnett - "The Eastside Assassin"
      Joe Hurley
      Guy Mezger
      Trevor Prangley
      Ken Shamrock - "Worlds Most Dangerous Man"
      Tra Telligman - "Trauma"
      Vernon White - "Tiger"
      Pete Williams - "El Duro"

      Hmmmmmmmmmmm ????????? Tiger White.....and Trevor Prangley still active and can win. Everyone else? Retired or punching bag. If Shamrock was a good coach, wouldn't this list be bigger and better? Fighters who make a living in the sport go to where the knowlege is plain and simple. MMA fighter would flock to the lions den. There does not appear to be a line out the door.
      That doesn't answer the question.

      You said that his techniques are "old and out of date". I'm curious as to what specific techniques are old and out of date. I'm also curious as to what techniques you believe are new or modern.

      Comment


        #48
        I would also like to add this:

        TUF IS REALITY TV. _REALITY_TV_IS_ABOUT_DRAMA_

        PEtrainer - you seem to be missing the point completely (as well as avoiding the question) the best coaches are not neccessarily going to be on the show. In case you hadn't noticed the best fighters weren't on the show either. It is a carefully picked crew that balances ability with personality.

        Personally I think your whole arguement sucks. But your statements regarding his techniques being outdated, or his team sucking is kind of lame. Have punches changed over the last few years? And you list a huge number of professional fighters out there as his students. Here is a question for ya, how many professional fighters does Franklin or Hughes have? It is a testament to Ken's skill as a coach to have put up so many guys from the Lions Den. He _IS_ old. There is no doubting that his days as a fighter are pretty much over. But that has NOTHING to do with his coaching ability.

        Personally I think Ken is a great choice. For a number of reasons. He will attract a few more wrestling fans familiar with his name. He will keep the 'old school' guys like myself who have watched the UFC since its first PPV watching. And he has enough personality and drama to make the show watchable through product placement, Dana's crying, piss poor fighting at times, and that sort of thing.

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by Yrkoon9
          I would also like to add this:

          TUF IS REALITY TV. _REALITY_TV_IS_ABOUT_DRAMA_

          PEtrainer - you seem to be missing the point completely (as well as avoiding the question) the best coaches are not neccessarily going to be on the show. In case you hadn't noticed the best fighters weren't on the show either. It is a carefully picked crew that balances ability with personality.

          Personally I think your whole arguement sucks. But your statements regarding his techniques being outdated, or his team sucking is kind of lame. Have punches changed over the last few years? And you list a huge number of professional fighters out there as his students. Here is a question for ya, how many professional fighters does Franklin or Hughes have? It is a testament to Ken's skill as a coach to have put up so many guys from the Lions Den. He _IS_ old. There is no doubting that his days as a fighter are pretty much over. But that has NOTHING to do with his coaching ability.

          Personally I think Ken is a great choice. For a number of reasons. He will attract a few more wrestling fans familiar with his name. He will keep the 'old school' guys like myself who have watched the UFC since its first PPV watching. And he has enough personality and drama to make the show watchable through product placement, Dana's crying, piss poor fighting at times, and that sort of thing.
          I see everyones points to the arguments. Ken is fun to watch, godfather of sorts of the sport. For TV he makes a great coach. I was saying that I just think there are better choices out there, and if I was a hungry young kid, I would be hoping for somone on top of the scene is all.

          I guess what I am saying about Shamrock being out of date is that you are right pucnches don't change, chokes don't change, but how we implement them does. I think it is evident that his stly is sloppy compared to todays fighters and he leaves himself open to KO the way he just ruches around trying to take someones head off.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Memnoch1207
            Jeremy Horn should have lost that decision, if for no other reason than Prangley was in the dominant position through out most of the fight.
            In someone's guard is not a dominant position; it's a neutral position. The person that executes the most things from there deserves the win.

            If a guy takes another guy down into his guard, and neither fighter effectively does anything, then the guy who got the takedown should get the win, because he at least executed something (the takedown) effectively. But that wasn't the case here.

            Prangley took Horn down and did nothing effective in his guard, whereas Horn hit him repeatedly from the bottom with elbows and had four or five close sub attempts. Horn executed more techniques, was closer to finishing the fight, and caused more damage from the bottom position than Prangley did from the top.

            It was a close fight, because it was very even on the feet, but Prangleys successful takedowns were (and should be) outweighed by Horn's successful offense from the bottom.
            Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.

            Comment


              #51
              "Prangley took Horn down and did nothing effective in his guard, whereas Horn hit him repeatedly from the bottom with elbows and had four or five close sub attempts. Horn executed more techniques, was closer to finishing the fight, and caused more damage from the bottom position than Prangley did from the top."

              Um, the only things horn did from the bottwom were 3 failed sub attempts. What fight were you watching? Horn didn't do a thing to Prangley from the bottwom in terms of striking. Prangley was was showering down punches and dominating the whole way during the second and third rounds. That was his fight fair and square. Listen to Horn at the end "Uh I guess I just uh worked harder from the bottom." Worked harder? What the hell is that BS?

              Comment


                #52
                I love the fact that Ken Shamrock is going to be a coach.

                He is extremely entertaining, loves to talk and I think he knows what he is talking about.

                I mean, you see boxing coaches who are 70 years old, but for some reason they were able to turn out champions? Why is this?

                Why is it that at 70 when he supposed to be out of date is he still able to produce fighters who exceed in the sport? It's because like history it repeats itself.

                I would love to have Ken Shamrock coach me for a couple months, and I think that anyone who wouldn't take his advice to heart is cheating themselves out of information that he learned the hard way.

                Just because a fighter is at the top doesn't mean he can convey his skills thouroughly to a student.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by Akurra
                  Um, the only things horn did from the bottwom were 3 failed sub attempts. What fight were you watching? Horn didn't do a thing to Prangley from the bottwom in terms of striking. Prangley was was showering down punches and dominating the whole way during the second and third rounds. That was his fight fair and square. Listen to Horn at the end "Uh I guess I just uh worked harder from the bottom." Worked harder? What the hell is that BS?
                  You're simply wrong. Horn elbowed Prangley repeatedly from the bottom, in the sides of the head and in the face. Prangly never connected with punches or elbows except for one decent flurry in the third round. He had no pass attempts, no sub attempts, and no effective striking from within the guard except for that single flurry. Horn had four close sub attempts, and repeated elbows that connected and got reactions from Prangley (several times when horn was elbowing him he stopped all attempts to hit him and covered up/buried his face).

                  Watch the fight again.
                  Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    So.... i jsut had an interesting conversation at work... I just got of a call with a mortgage broker who was haivng problems with our system. While i was trouble shooting the problem i was sharring her desktop. When i clicked out of our screen and on to her desktop I see she has a picture of who i assume is her, her boyfriend and Nate "the rock" Quarry. So i ask her about it and she tells me that she and her boyfriend are good friends with Nate and the picture was taken post beating at UFC 56. So we started talking about the PPV and and she said that she talked to Nate yesterday adn that he's fine besides some cuts and bruises and that he he's not even that down after taking such a beating. Then we were talking about training who shes met through training and friends of her boyfriend ( who apprently cornered Randy Couture at UFC 13-ish).

                    That was the coolest call i've ever had at work.

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