Specialized styles or all encompassing system?

[W. Rabbit]

It's blindingly obvious, Rabbit, when you turn the corner from having a discussion to just saying things to disagree with someone you feel has recently slighted you. (For everyone watching: I just called him out for a silly thing he said in a CMA thread: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...=1#post2866509) It makes me worry for your psychological well-being.

You didn't call me out for shit. Nice red herring attempt.

And please Irony Man, I'm not the narcissist who likes to post himself lifting weights on the internet, the electronic version of checking yourself out in the gym mirror.

If anybody has a "psychological" issue it's THAT guy.

Nobody is watching you/us, fyi. You Narcissist fuck, you like that sort of thing, I can tell.

This is one of those topics where I'm stupefied that you disagree.

I don't disagree, I disagree with some of the fallacious logic certain people are using. The sources are one thing, and I can read so their conclusions are clear. But this is a serious discussion, you can make a formally logical valid argument while using informally fallacious reasoning. Nobody is off limits to this sort of criticism, even YOU, Mr. Perfect, have to explain yourself better.

Chen did a much better job defending YOU than you defended yourself.

We're discussing kids, it's an important enough subject to examine not just the conclusions but the reasoning behind pushing them into activities (or put another way, understanding how far to push and how to care for their mental and emotional as well as physical development while encouraging them to excel and diversify).

Let me check my library to see if I can find a quick reference for you. But I do note that you've brought this up in a kind of dickish way.

When you actually deserve a different way you'll get a different way. That goes for Chen too, but at least his sense of humor comes across, you're just a prick.

[1point2]

The only relevant text I have on hand is Science of Sports Training by Tom Kurz.

Page 299, in his Long Term Planning chapter, discussing the Initial Preparation stage:

Movement abilities and other factors that determine sports talent are poorly differentiated in children. In other words all the athletic abilities correlate highly in small children, so a strong child is likely to be fast, agile, and have good endurance. With age and with training the abilities gradually diverge so there is less correlation between them—those most strong are not necessary most agile, and so on. This divergence of abilities is similar to what occurs in the training of all beginners: Initially any exercise improves all abilities (wide transfer of training effect) and then, with progress the influence the influence of this exercise narrows down to one ability. This is one more reason, apart from the development of general coordination, for using a wide variety of exercises with beginners and young athletes—the transfer of training effect is wide for them so they improve even with exercises different than those of their sport while avoiding the hazards of unvaried repetitive stresses.

I omitted the references he gives; they're probably of little use to you since they are most likely in Polish or Russian.

On the next page he describes how a young athlete's training should be only 5-10% sport-specific exercises for sports which "require considerable strength and endurance", like judo or cycling, and only 30% for sports that are more skill- and tactics-based like fencing.

This chapter is really what you need to read. He also reviews the Basic Preparation stage and the Specialization, Mastery, Stabilization, and Maintenance stages after that. Interestingly, even during the Specialization stage only 40-50% of training volume is sport-specific, and the athlete "specializes" in *all* the aspects of a wide sport (e.g. all the events in track and field).

Page 302:

Czajkowski (1998a) observes that premature specialization in technical sports means a too-early use of competitive exercises and competing too frequently instead of building a rich thesaurus of technical and tactical skills. Initially, and for a short time, the badly trained youth with poor technique wins thanks to speed, strength, or endurance, as well as courage and confidence. In sports with limited technical skills where such physical abilities as speed, strength, or endurance determine results, premature specialization at the expense of building a versatile foundation brings early successes because, paradoxically, the badly trained youth has a technical advantage over properly trained peers.

Page 303:

Young athletes of speed-strength sports (track-and-field jumps and throws, weightlifting) can enter the stage of initial specialization around the age of 15 years... Subjecting youth to very intensive training stimuli, of an intensity typical for athletes at the peak of their potential, causes the youth to adapt to these stimuli before their physical potential is fully developed... Early intensive training in which sport-specific loads dominate right from the beginning gives quick progress and produces youth champions. Unfortunately these champions end their progress a few years before they reach the age of highest results (Sozanski and Zaporozanow [Zaporozhanov]) 1993).

I believe I've read similar discussions in other sports science books and blogs. I could be wrong, but this isn't something I pulled out of my ass.

[Raycetpfl]

Well..... this escalated quickly.

[W. Rabbit]

Well..... this escalated quickly.

You'll find some people around here are like broken records, they choose specific targets for constant badgering, and stick with them no matter what. I can't ever seem to shake these two douchebags trolling me.

In fact, neither Chen nor 1point2 have ever supported or even remotely come close to suggesting they liked a single thing I've ever posted, in either the comedy forums or the "real" ones. It's been practically 100% negative feedback no matter what, which puts them in the 1% of Bullshido's membership that currently seems to do that sort of thing.

So, I don't take them or their arguments seriously unless they actually address my questions.

And especially when they say things like "hey everybody watching look!"...outside of YMAS. That might just be the most juvenile thing I've ever seen on Bullshido.

It should strike reasonable people as bizarre behavior, even for a web forum like this, unless the badgers involved are also masturbating while they do it and pleasuring them selves via harassing the same people over and over (Chen has already admitted to that).

I haven't asked Omega why he said he has 1point2 on Ignore, but I'd love to find out.

But I like how even questioning what the two of those guys say turns into a virtual gangbang on me every time, even going so far as to bring in other threads and unrelated discussions. It really says a lot more about them than it says anything about me. I just try to encourage them to defend their statements, or produce a solid resource rather than appeal to their own authority. Because let's face it, most of us here have little to no authority on these subjects.

The difference between us? They'll never accept my arguments, defenses, or sources. Not one subject. Ever.

[Yuk]

First paragraph would be the old Soviet Union style system in a nutshell, right ?

No, not really. There were two separate systems: school physical education lessons and out of school training. School PE more or less followed the description (I.e. skiing or skating in winter, track and field in summer, gymnastics year around) but the only thing it had to do with sport - elite or otherwise - was putting kids off it for good (yeah, coercion). Out of school training on the other hand was voluntary, specialised from the very start, and mostly free. For popular sports, such as gymnastics, you had to pass a selection process,so only kids with specific physical traits, such as flexibility, were admitted. For other sports, they trained more or less anyone who bothered showing up. There was also a system of sport schools, but I am not familiar with that. That was for elite athletes, again, specialised from the start and highly selective.

[1point2]

I haven't asked Omega why he said he has 1point2 on Ignore, but I'd love to find out.

I negged two of his posts over the span of a week, because in each of them he was being an antisocial jerk. He PMed me demanding explanation. I explained that I treated his posts just like anybody else's. This is, to my recollection, the entirety of the tiff.

I just try to encourage them to defend their statements, or produce a solid resource rather than appeal to their own authority.

Plenty of people have asked me for sources with no problem. I'll point out that I happily provided quotes from a book within minutes of seeing your post. But to explain why everybody seems to pick on you:

"I know you didn't just make your opinion seem like a fact, without some serious evidence." <-- sarcasm

"I asked him, not you, to defend his claim" <-- unnecessary dickery

Even after CPF points out the *physical* detriment of early specialization—in multiple, specific, quoted passages!—you kept harping about it being a purely psychological phenomenon <-- aggravating and indicative that you're not really engaging our arguments or perhaps even reading our posts

You then call someone daft for claiming that the links/studies he cites say what they say. <-- frustrating to the degree that we must assume you are trolling

"You Narcissist fuck" <-- this is somewhat unfriendly. Because you keep bringing it up (but not because I expect anything I say to change your unpleasant behavior), I post my lifting videos so I can get form checks from faraway friends, and to demonstrate what a scrawny karate nerd can do after just a few months of hard training. And just for the social fun of posting my training. I'm not sorry that this offends you.

"Chen did a much better job defending YOU than you defended yourself." <-- this is the kind of out-of-the-blue escalation that makes me think you have a persecution complex.

[W. Rabbit]

I negged two of his posts over the span of a week, because in each of them he was being an antisocial jerk. He PMed me demanding explanation. I explained that I treated his posts just like anybody else's. This is, to my recollection, the entirety of the tiff.

Except it doesn't appear I've ever PM'd you (I checked), so feel free to provide more details on that little bit.

I can prove, statistically, that practically 100% of your feedback has been solely negative over 5 years. I know you can't do the same for my feedback to you, that I've been pretty fair about your own posts.

I can do the analysis if you like and provide the numbers. People who never provide positive feedback are kind of obvious..

But to explain why everybody seems to pick on you:

Everybody does not pick on me. A select handful of self-appointed martial art elitists with nothing to show for it, claim to do it for sport.

This school yard bully mentality you seem to have is again, consistent with a narcissist person. You think you speak for a crowd. You don't come close.

"I know you didn't just make your opinion seem like a fact, without some serious evidence." <-- sarcasm DO TELL

"I asked him, not you, to defend his claim" <-- unnecessary dickery TOTALLY NECESSARY DICKERY

Even after CPF points out the *physical* detriment of early specialization—in multiple, specific, quoted passages!—you kept harping about it being a purely psychological phenomenon <-- aggravating and indicative that you're not really engaging our arguments or perhaps even reading our posts THAT'S A BOLD STATEMENT, PRETTY SURE I ENGAGED AND FIRED HEAT SEEKING MISSILES AT YOUR ARGUMENTS

You then call someone daft for claiming that the links/studies he cites say what they say. <-- frustrating to the degree that we must assume you are trolling ASKING YOU QUESTIONS OR TO DEFEND CLAIMS IS NOT TROLLING

"You Narcissist fuck" <-- this is somewhat unfriendly. Because you keep bringing it up (but not because I expect anything I say to change your unpleasant behavior), I post my lifting videos so I can get form checks from faraway friends, and to demonstrate what a scrawny karate nerd can do after just a few months of hard training. And just for the social fun of posting my training. I'm not sorry that this offends you. CONSTANT HARASSMENT BY THE SAME INDIVIDUALS ON BULLSHIDO IS WHAT ACTUALLY OFFENDS ME

"Chen did a much better job defending YOU than you defended yourself." <-- this is the kind of out-of-the-blue escalation that makes me think you have a persecution complex. NOPE, JUST A COUPLE OF ASSHOLES ORBITING ME

See my annotations. You're so passive aggressive, it hurts. Maybe that's why Omega ignores you, you're more annoying than even I am capable.

[1point2]

Except it doesn't appear I've ever PM'd you (I checked), so feel free to provide more details on that little bit.

I said Omega PMed me, not you. I think there's some confusion here. (Also, you've PMed me three times that I still have records of, once about Shuai Jiao, once a quick "thanks" to an article I probably sent you sarcastically, and once about a thumbs-up/thumbs-down error.)

I can prove, statistically, that practically 100% of your feedback has been solely negative over 5 years.

This is exactly the kind of rep bitching I wish we still banned.

[Wherestehbeer]

Except, not so much in reality. Take judo: for throwing, it's an exceedingly broad curriculum so one would assume that to be good you would be able to use whatever is appropriate for the situation. In reality, everyone zeroes in on a handful of techniques and learns to apply that small subset really well. You can buy whole books on single techniques, wherein they discuss the various entries, how to use them in combination, as counters, etc. If you've got 2 forward throws and 2 backward throws and can make them work, you are pretty much good to go from a competition standpoint. Some people make a career out of a single throw.

True. Back in high school, there was this kid named Loudermilk who beat me twice at semi-state. He was crap on the mat, but that fucking high crotch single... Probably the closest thing to perfect I've ever seen. He was a perennial state competitor with only one great shot, and that was his advice both times he beat me. "One great shot will get you to state bud." Which is why I asked what the goal is, he could take anyone down, but I highly doubt anyone of even amateur skill wouldn't mop him in anything outside catch wrestling. Sport competition? MMA? Bar fights? What type of training is best is a strange question without stating what it needs to be best for.

He rolled some 1d10000 dice to get that number.

There's a d10000!? Wtf does that kind of damage? I bet that fucking thing never stops rolling.

[W. Rabbit]

This is exactly the kind of rep bitching I wish we still banned.

Or, "Rep bitching" is just you abusing the system. Not to provide actual feedback to other members, but to let members you don't like know when you're ready to bitch at them.

And is that the royal "we"? You really need to stop pretending you speak for Bullshido-at-large, it's the first sign of a mouthboxing douchebag.

You know who never claims to speak for this website? People who actually meet up with other Bullies in person, and act real now and then.

[W. Rabbit]

There's a d10000!? Wtf does that kind of damage? I bet that fucking thing never stops rolling.

You can build a computer model of one, so they are theoretically constructible.

There is a real 100-sided die, the Zocchihedron.

[1point2]

You know who never claims to speak for this website? People who actually meet up with other Bullies in person, and act real now and then.

I'm the one throwing point-karate kicks (because I specialized in light-contact karate before moving to general fight training!) and getting mauled by Domite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yYLtG9rV2w

You've hunted down my lifting videos, so you're perfectly capable of hunting down the videos I've posted of the four? five? throwdowns I've gone to. I specialized in the NYC throwdown scene, but would like to move to general throwdownery in Eurasia.

Let's save the rest of our tiff for when we can discuss it in person. For now let's specialize in the discussion actually at hand in this thread.

[Wherestehbeer]

You can build a computer model of one, so they are theoretically constructible.

There is a real 100-sided die, the Zocchihedron.

Yeah, and it never stops rolling... I can't even imagine a 10000...

[It is Fake]

Not on purpose, I'm not in the habit of intentionally misquoting anyone.

I said Omega PMed me, not you. I think there's some confusion here.

Now, this shit is funny.

[W. Rabbit]

I'm the one throwing point-karate kicks (because I specialized in light-contact karate before moving to general fight training!) and getting mauled by Domite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yYLtG9rV2w

You've hunted down my lifting videos, so you're perfectly capable of hunting down the videos I've posted of the four? five? throwdowns I've gone to. I specialized in the NYC throwdown scene, but would like to move to general throwdownery in Eurasia.

Let's save the rest of our tiff for when we can discuss it in person. For now let's specialize in the discussion actually at hand in this thread.

I've know your training history, it's in your bio, and I've probably watched more Bullshido video than you ever will, including all of yours ("hunted down" is a stretch dude you posted it publicly, all over the place).

Just to be clear: I was right, you're not and SHOULDN'T be speaking for Bullshido during your ridicule, right? Because doing that with members that you know will meet up and throw down would be stupid, right? Great way to cause real drama with real people, right?

Right. Next topic.