This is from the other thread on the Shredder. Thought I'd do them the favor of crossposting it here. After reading it, I'd be willing to try a seminar somewhere down the road.
Hey there guys, name's Ryu.
I'm posting on here because I have a background in MMA/BJJ and have been studying and field testing some of the Senshido stuff for the last year and a half or so. I've added the shredder to my arsenal, and I'll explain why.
Keep in mind it's late, so I may be a bit groggy here.
First a bit about my background.
Been involved with the martial arts for almost 20 years now.
When I was 14 I first started getting involved with JKD. When I was 16 I started taking lessons in JKD concepts from Paul Vunak and Thomas Cruz. Got involved with BJJ after the first UFC, and started attending seminars with Rickson Gracie, and Fabio Santos.
Continued with my JKD concepts training, and also enrolled in Carlos Machado's BJJ academy in Dallas. Spent time as well in a judo school run by Sensei Vince Tamura, and am now currently a full instructor in JKD concepts under sifu Paul Vunak.
Okay.
Well lots has been said about Rich's concepts (some intelligent, some not so intelligent) so I figured I'd come on to say my piece, and explain the shredder......from at least my experience with it and how I use it in conjunction with my JKD and MMA format.
First and foremost, the shred is not a magic pill. It's not a "secret move" to beat grapplers, it's not a killer technique or a move to learn that will let the 130 pound nerd beat up the big bad 200 pound wrestler.
Anyone who thinks or says that is a moron. Plain and simple.
That being said, because of what the shred is exactly, I think there's semantic misunderstandings that happen when people first hear about it. (It's an eye gouging system, it's about scratching people's faces, etc.)
The shred is a tool and concept used in extreme close quarters. The shred's effectivenss is due to the human body's natural flinch and defense response when it's eyes, nose, breathing ways, throat, etc. are being threatened.
(i.e. when something comes at our eyes we blink....whether we want to or not. We try to defend against a gouge by turning our head, grabbing the hand, tucking our chin down, etc.)
The shred follows these flinch responses on the quarter beat, and in so doing creates a repetitive attack that bypasses the flinch response of the human body.
What this means is that when the fighter is in good position, he may shred his opponent, and when doing so, the opponent is put (naturally) on the defensive without good leverage, balance, or motivation to go offensive.
When the defender ducks his head to escape the gouge, his ear is being pulled off, when he tries to defend his ear, fingers are rammed into his eyes, as he tries to duck under and clinch, his neck is cranked to one side, while his eye is gouged from the other hand, while his hair is pulled, while his chin is palmed, while his head is cranked to the other side, while his legs are being jammed, while he's being pulled down to the ground, etc.
The repetitiveness of the attack is in the clinch at all times. And because of the immediate threat, the body must immediately defend itself. The problem is that the attack becomes "too quick" for the defenses to catch up to in a sense. Trying to simply bypass the "defense" mechanism of the body and "force" a takedown, clinch, etc. usually results in a loss of balance, leverage, weak powered shoot, etc.
The hands travel across the face, and never lift off the face while they do so. The hands are so invasive that the body's natural response (even among fighters) is to immediately try and get those hands away.
(Test this out. Clinch with someone and instruct them to try their damndest to keep their hands in your face no matter what. The body's reaction to it is sometimes surprising. Do it full out and with full resistance with both sides.)
The shred also is, as I mentioned before, a close quarter tactic. This means that you DO NOT extend your arms for it....ever. To do so is not "shredding."
You don't extend your arms on the ground, and you don't extend your arms on your feet either....
it's easy to simply duck under an extended arm in the clinch, and go for a back suplex, ankle pick, or any other host of takedowns at your disposal.
If you're grappling and someone reaches up to grab your face while you're mounted.....well it's easy to simply spin around their outstretched arm and fall back into an armbar. Or slap it to the side and get a shoulder choke, or any other host of submissions from that position.
What then does the shred do if it doesn't involve extending arms in any way, shape, or form?
The shred is a clinch weapon. It's an anchor weapon. You use it in grappling when you have full control of your opponent's head and neck, and have trapped it to your hands (this can be with your elbow, your hand, in between your chest and the ground, etc.)
In order to shred you have to trap/anchor/keep the opponent's head locked to you. Your arms are not extended at all, and position is a must in order to perform it correctly (and work it against a fully resistant opponent).
I like to shred in the midst of my groundwork. I like to get a mount position, stretch my opponent out, and give him trouble with the shred while keeping his head in between the ground and my chest. Usually he will flinch in a way that opens him up for a nice armbar anyway.
You can't simply "shred" from long distance either. You have to use skill in the boxing range, the kickboxing range, etc. to get into the clinching range. Once in the clinch, you need strength, balance, and base to keep from being tossed on your head. Shredding becomes a tool to give an edge here if the opponent is trapped to you and is forced to suddenly continually go on the defensive.
The shred is not anything secret or mystical. It's a realistic tool that can be trained with resistance (goggles can be worn to protect eyes, etc.) and can be added to an already existing repertoire of MMA skills.
It has nothing to do with simply "eye gouging" an opponent.
It is a behaviorally/psychologically based tool that interrupts the body's defense/offense systems.
If anything it can be used to give openinings in the clinch or the ground. Definitely something that does have merit in my opinion.
That doesn't mean I won't use my low single, rear naked, or kimura when I can. But it's nice to have something else I can actually field test and see work in my training against resisting opponents.
Hope this clears up some misconceptions. Rich is a genuinely nice and ethical individual, and I fully respect him for that. I believe he has a lot of knowledge on what he does, and has some good experience behind him.
His concept has been working for me for the last year.....and I train it with people who are punching my face with gloves, kicking my thighs with hard kicks, armbarring me from the ground, and trying to choke me out from behind.
Take care,
Ryu
I'm posting on here because I have a background in MMA/BJJ and have been studying and field testing some of the Senshido stuff for the last year and a half or so. I've added the shredder to my arsenal, and I'll explain why.
Keep in mind it's late, so I may be a bit groggy here.
First a bit about my background.
Been involved with the martial arts for almost 20 years now.
When I was 14 I first started getting involved with JKD. When I was 16 I started taking lessons in JKD concepts from Paul Vunak and Thomas Cruz. Got involved with BJJ after the first UFC, and started attending seminars with Rickson Gracie, and Fabio Santos.
Continued with my JKD concepts training, and also enrolled in Carlos Machado's BJJ academy in Dallas. Spent time as well in a judo school run by Sensei Vince Tamura, and am now currently a full instructor in JKD concepts under sifu Paul Vunak.
Okay.
Well lots has been said about Rich's concepts (some intelligent, some not so intelligent) so I figured I'd come on to say my piece, and explain the shredder......from at least my experience with it and how I use it in conjunction with my JKD and MMA format.
First and foremost, the shred is not a magic pill. It's not a "secret move" to beat grapplers, it's not a killer technique or a move to learn that will let the 130 pound nerd beat up the big bad 200 pound wrestler.
Anyone who thinks or says that is a moron. Plain and simple.
That being said, because of what the shred is exactly, I think there's semantic misunderstandings that happen when people first hear about it. (It's an eye gouging system, it's about scratching people's faces, etc.)
The shred is a tool and concept used in extreme close quarters. The shred's effectivenss is due to the human body's natural flinch and defense response when it's eyes, nose, breathing ways, throat, etc. are being threatened.
(i.e. when something comes at our eyes we blink....whether we want to or not. We try to defend against a gouge by turning our head, grabbing the hand, tucking our chin down, etc.)
The shred follows these flinch responses on the quarter beat, and in so doing creates a repetitive attack that bypasses the flinch response of the human body.
What this means is that when the fighter is in good position, he may shred his opponent, and when doing so, the opponent is put (naturally) on the defensive without good leverage, balance, or motivation to go offensive.
When the defender ducks his head to escape the gouge, his ear is being pulled off, when he tries to defend his ear, fingers are rammed into his eyes, as he tries to duck under and clinch, his neck is cranked to one side, while his eye is gouged from the other hand, while his hair is pulled, while his chin is palmed, while his head is cranked to the other side, while his legs are being jammed, while he's being pulled down to the ground, etc.
The repetitiveness of the attack is in the clinch at all times. And because of the immediate threat, the body must immediately defend itself. The problem is that the attack becomes "too quick" for the defenses to catch up to in a sense. Trying to simply bypass the "defense" mechanism of the body and "force" a takedown, clinch, etc. usually results in a loss of balance, leverage, weak powered shoot, etc.
The hands travel across the face, and never lift off the face while they do so. The hands are so invasive that the body's natural response (even among fighters) is to immediately try and get those hands away.
(Test this out. Clinch with someone and instruct them to try their damndest to keep their hands in your face no matter what. The body's reaction to it is sometimes surprising. Do it full out and with full resistance with both sides.)
The shred also is, as I mentioned before, a close quarter tactic. This means that you DO NOT extend your arms for it....ever. To do so is not "shredding."
You don't extend your arms on the ground, and you don't extend your arms on your feet either....
it's easy to simply duck under an extended arm in the clinch, and go for a back suplex, ankle pick, or any other host of takedowns at your disposal.
If you're grappling and someone reaches up to grab your face while you're mounted.....well it's easy to simply spin around their outstretched arm and fall back into an armbar. Or slap it to the side and get a shoulder choke, or any other host of submissions from that position.
What then does the shred do if it doesn't involve extending arms in any way, shape, or form?
The shred is a clinch weapon. It's an anchor weapon. You use it in grappling when you have full control of your opponent's head and neck, and have trapped it to your hands (this can be with your elbow, your hand, in between your chest and the ground, etc.)
In order to shred you have to trap/anchor/keep the opponent's head locked to you. Your arms are not extended at all, and position is a must in order to perform it correctly (and work it against a fully resistant opponent).
I like to shred in the midst of my groundwork. I like to get a mount position, stretch my opponent out, and give him trouble with the shred while keeping his head in between the ground and my chest. Usually he will flinch in a way that opens him up for a nice armbar anyway.
You can't simply "shred" from long distance either. You have to use skill in the boxing range, the kickboxing range, etc. to get into the clinching range. Once in the clinch, you need strength, balance, and base to keep from being tossed on your head. Shredding becomes a tool to give an edge here if the opponent is trapped to you and is forced to suddenly continually go on the defensive.
The shred is not anything secret or mystical. It's a realistic tool that can be trained with resistance (goggles can be worn to protect eyes, etc.) and can be added to an already existing repertoire of MMA skills.
It has nothing to do with simply "eye gouging" an opponent.
It is a behaviorally/psychologically based tool that interrupts the body's defense/offense systems.
If anything it can be used to give openinings in the clinch or the ground. Definitely something that does have merit in my opinion.
That doesn't mean I won't use my low single, rear naked, or kimura when I can. But it's nice to have something else I can actually field test and see work in my training against resisting opponents.
Hope this clears up some misconceptions. Rich is a genuinely nice and ethical individual, and I fully respect him for that. I believe he has a lot of knowledge on what he does, and has some good experience behind him.
His concept has been working for me for the last year.....and I train it with people who are punching my face with gloves, kicking my thighs with hard kicks, armbarring me from the ground, and trying to choke me out from behind.
Take care,
Ryu
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