"Sadoki" karate?

[ronin497]

I've been really interested in getting into boxing and judo. I've been out of the MA game for a long time, and I think I found a place here in town that looks promising. They're affiliated with a national boxing chain, and all of the instructors look on the up and up.

There's only one guy that raises my eyebrows, and that's only because he's being billed as a 2X World Champion on their website. I've tried to locate records of it and I'm coming up short. Maybe someone in the community here with a lot more research experience can point me in the right direction for verifying this guy (to the extent that's possible on the internet.)

Here's his (presumably self-written) bio from the place's website. My specific questions appear afterwards. His name has been redacted (for now.)

Started doing martial arts as a young boy. My first art was Judo were is was able to become the state and national 88lbs champion my senior year in high school in 1989. Made USJA Judo hall of fame. After going to Colorado springs and getting to see boxers and karate players I wanted to expand my game, I was fortunate to study under Terry Gibson before he passed for to years. I told Master Gibson I really wanted to fight professional we he refered me to Dale Apollo Cook. I recieved masters black belt in sadoki karate in 1994. I also crossed trained in Muay Thai which became my strongest suit, in 1993 became the UKF Muy Thai 101lbs US Champion. In 1994 became the new 118lbs bantam wieght UKF World Champion. I broke my humorus, scapula, collar bone, and seperated my shoulder in the first round, long five rounds that ended in unanimious decision my way. I suffered a year of paralysis on right side, I was written off by most as over. I started my rehab with Gerald Mirabal (3 time Mr Oklahoma)for two years and Olympic boxing trainer Dr Virg (Allen Virgets). Rehab was long and hard but gained UKF feather wieght world title in 1996. I continued to defend my titles untill the year 2000. I contined training in the arts and in 2005 I meet Fabio Santos were I stared the quest in brazilian ju jitsu. 2005 awarded Best of the Best tranier on the year. I started play Judo again in 2009 to continue my growth of the sport. I strive everyday to gain and grow by teaching others.

Here's the things that stick out to me:

1. I can't seem to find much in the way of "UKF Muay Thai World Champion" on the net. Don't most sporting bodies maintain accurate records of who won what, and when? What could he be referring to here?

2. "Sadoki" karate? What is that? I've never heard of it, and can't seem to find out anything about it. In addition, he claims a "masters-level black belt." What does that mean? I hold a shodan certificate in Tomiki Aikido from back in the day, and the way I understand it there aren't any "special" kinds of black belt apart from the dan ranks. Does "Sadoki" exist, and is it normal for styles to refer to grades as things like a "master's level black belt?"

3. He claims to have made the USJA Hall of Fame. A quick check of the USJA's website indicates he is not listed. He did, however, make the state-level Judo Hall of Fame. Is this sort of gaffe normal from an instructor?

It's possible that he's just not very good at writing, but I can't shake the feeling that he's misrepresenting himself.

All the same, any assistance from the karate folks on this forum would be most appreciated.

[Nicko1]

This bit kind of leapt out at me.

In 1994 became the new 118lbs bantam wieght UKF World Champion. I broke my humorus, scapula, collar bone, and seperated my shoulder in the first round, long five rounds that ended in unanimious decision my way. I suffered a year of paralysis on right side, I was written off by most as over.

If this was true, he would be one of the toughest karateka in the world. He would be rather famous for winning his title after sustaining these injuries.
Also, the only UKF I could find was in Ulster (Ireland). Is he Irish?

[ronin497]

Is he Irish?

He's about as Irish as jambalaya.

At any rate, he's dropped enough names in his bio (Dale "Apollo" Cook) and such, that verification of the more extraordinary claims (such as coming back from that injury) should be relatively easy.

I'm really not sure about what he's claiming. Breaking the humerus, scapula, collarbone, and separating the shoulder would be unbearably painful. I don't think a person would be able to stand and breathe without morphine, let alone continue fighting FOUR MORE rounds.

And what kind of competition would allow a competitor to continue with injuries that greivous? Is that even consistent with Muay Thai competition? I know injuries can and do occur, but he's describing the kind of injuries you'd see in a motorcycle accident. What kind of force would it take to break the humerus, scapula, collarbone, AND separate the shoulder?

Uggh. The more I look at his bio the more I don't like it.

But I'll reserve judgement until I can contact some of the names he's dropped.

[Nicko1]

Breaking the humerus, scapula, collarbone, and separating the shoulder would be unbearably painful. I don't think a person would be able to stand and breathe without morphine, let alone continue fighting FOUR MORE rounds.

And what kind of competition would allow a competitor to continue with injuries that greivous? Is that even consistent with Muay Thai competition? I know injuries can and do occur, but he's describing the kind of injuries you'd see in a motorcycle accident. What kind of force would it take to break the humerus, scapula, collarbone, AND separate the shoulder?

Exactly. If this had happened for real it would be all over the interwebs as the most legendary thing ever. It is not, therefore didn't happen.

[Alex \m/]

Never heard of this guy (and I found his name). Never heard of his style (and I've studied karate for over 10 years). What really gets me is that he claims to be a master in "Sadoki" Karate and doesn't even list Karate as one of his fighting styles on the web site.

If you want to learn to box go to a Shotokan school and do some makiwara training. You're punches will be quicker and stronger than ever before and you'll learn a bunch of other techniques too.

[DarkPhoenix]

http://www.oklahomajudo.org/files/HALLFAME_2006.pdf

He was Oklahoma Judo Hall of Fame. The USJA allows the states organisations to have there own hall of fame.

Edit: He was the 1989 College Scholarship Award winner. It's on page 14.

As for Master's level BB, i know in TKD we have something like that. After 4th Dan you are considered a master.

[Petter]

If you want to learn to box go to a Shotokan school and do some makiwara training. You're punches will be quicker and stronger than ever before and you'll learn a bunch of other techniques too.

If you want to learn to box, go to a boxing gym.

Oddly enough, a lot of people suspect that the best punchers in the world are the ones who make a living from their punching skills.

[Alex \m/]

If you want to learn to box, go to a boxing gym.

Oddly enough, a lot of people suspect that the best punchers in the world are the ones who make a living from their punching skills.

Call me old fashioned, but I've seen Shotokan guys hit a lot harder than boxers so that's what I stick with.

[Petter]

Call me old fashioned, but I've seen Shotokan guys hit a lot harder than boxers so that's what I stick with.

Being wrong does not make you old fashioned.

[searcher66071]

As for Master's level BB, i know in TKD we have something like that. After 4th Dan you are considered a master.

True, most KMAs follow this way of decidng who is a master or deemed being called master.

If you want to learn to box, go to a boxing gym.

Oddly enough, a lot of people suspect that the best punchers in the world are the ones who make a living from their punching skills.

Very true. Boxers are the best punchers in the world.

Call me old fashioned, but I've seen Shotokan guys hit a lot harder than boxers so that's what I stick with.

I have boxed and I have fought many Shotokan guys in my day and not even one Shotokan guy has come close to hitting as hard as a boxer. Nowhere in the world of close. And all makiwara training is good for is to condition the hands for hitting hard objects, IMO.




As for the "Sudoki" item at hand, isn't that just a nifty play on words for the game Sudoku? Come on, surely these guys can come up with something better. Or maybe not.

[Lysol]

And what kind of competition would allow a competitor to continue with injuries that greivous? Is that even consistent with Muay Thai competition? I know injuries can and do occur, but he's describing the kind of injuries you'd see in a motorcycle accident. What kind of force would it take to break the humerus, scapula, collarbone, AND separate the shoulder?

No sanctioned competition would allow that fight to continue. Granted, he could have done that at a smoker or meeting of the local fight club (which would also explain why Google found nothing of the event or organization), but then again, he could also be exaggerating the hell out of a more believable story. I'd put money on the latter.

Also, how the hell did his opponent not finish a guy with those types of injuries? Especially since he was given four rounds to do so. I know that poor cardio does affect your strength, but it doesn't exactly turn you from "Bone Crushing" to "Feather Tickeling".

[Alex \m/]

True, most KMAs follow this way of decidng who is a master or deemed being called master.



Very true. Boxers are the best punchers in the world.




I have boxed and I have fought many Shotokan guys in my day and not even one Shotokan guy has come close to hitting as hard as a boxer. Nowhere in the world of close. And all makiwara training is good for is to condition the hands for hitting hard objects, IMO.

Not a dense pillow on the wall. A real makiwara which is a flexible but fairly stiff board that pushes back with as much force as you hit it with will tell you every time your punch is good and every time it's weak. Or if your body isn't grounded well enough project the punch outward.

[Petter]

This post
In contrast,

• Most boxers spend lots of time punching pads, bags, and other boxers. Most boxers spend plenty of time on contact sparring, and when they do, punching is their only weapon (not their only technique, but their only offensive one). A boxer who punches poorly is a bad boxer. Pro boxers make a livingfooling themselves into thinking that they hit hard; they know it (or know they need to work on it).

[ronin497]

Guys, this isn't a thread for makiwara vs. heavy bag or Shotokan vs. Western Boxing.

Please take that stuff to the appropriate areas.

What I'm looking for is more information on any possible karate style called "Sadoki" and the "UKF" he claims to be a multiple-time World Champion of.

I want to make sure that I have my ducks all in a row before I make an appearance and talk to the guy, and I want to make sure that my arguments in favor of him padding his resume are both falsifiable and factually correct.