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Reality Check regarding imposters

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    Reality Check regarding imposters

    One of the claims that turns up from time to time from MA instructors who are seeking to "fluff up" their resumes involves them using phrases such as "Navy SEAL instructor", and "Instructed Navy SEALs and Army SF". Invariably, if these claims are not completely bogus, they are the result of one or more SEALs attending private classes on their off duty hours. The wording is carefully crafted to imply far more than actually took place.

    While there are a very few men who have been involved in refining MA styles for military use - Navy SEALs are trained in H2H by other Navy SEALs.

    Unfortunately, some of these guys go from using the tricky phrasing on their resumes to actually claiming they were SEALs.

    I recently participated in a 9-page thread on the General Discussion board about SEALs after my book was reviewed here by one of the regulars. Since that time I've received numerous private email inquiries from folks who regularly post on this board, and from forum readers on the www.military.com discussion board... all of them asking questions about how to tell the difference between a REAL SEAL and an imposter.

    Those who wish information on this subject can go to the informational page set up by the AuthentiSEALs - www.authentiseal.org/realitycheck.htm. While it doesn't cover EVERYTHING, it's a good overall data presentation.
    Steve Robinson RM2(SEAL)
    USN 1970-1978
    SEAL Team ONE
    Inshore Undersea Warfare Group ONE
    -UDT-SEAL Association - Member
    -POW Network Board of Directors
    -Naval Special Warfare Archives - SOF Analyst/Contributing Journalist
    -Disabled American Veterans - Life Member
    -FORMER Special Investigator - SEAL Authentication Team
    -CyberSEALs.org - Webmaster
    -Author - NO GUTS, NO GLORY - Unmasking Navy SEAL Imposters

    #2
    Thanks for the heads up BlackSmith.

    Comment


      #3
      And remember, The Wastrel could technically claim to be "An Official Tae Kwon Do Intructor for combat soldiers of the US Army."

      Never reflexively believe anyone...except me.


      BlacksmithSEAL,
      I need help with someone who's claiming Delta. Can you point me in the right direction? I know all about FOIAs and that sort of thing, but this one could be very difficult.
      Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

      Comment


        #4
        Steve, mind If I type in Appendix C of your book on this thread?

        BTW I did find my copy of "Special Forces/Ranger-UDT/SEAL Hand-To-Hand Combat/Special Weapons/Special Tactics Series: Knife Self-Defense For Combat" by Michael D. Echanis. The publisher's note says that the book is a basic reference text "for the Special Warfare Branches of the United States Military. It is intended for use by Airborne/Rangers/Special Forces/UDT/SEAL/ Force Recon/Commando personnel. . . . This system of training was developed from the basis of an ancient [editorial comment, Ancient my Ass] system of fighting, Hwarangdo, utilized by Korean warriors for over 2,000 years, reconstructed and developed for use by a Special Research Group comprised of former Special Forces/Ranger/UDT/SEAL Instructors for hand to Hand Combat, headed and directed by Mr. Echanis."

        On the ABOUT THE AUTHOR page the text says: "Michael D. Echanis is the developer and former Senior Instructor for the Special Forces/Ranger Hand to Hand Combat/Special Weapons School for instructors and the former Senior Instructor for the UDT-21, SEAL-2, Hand to Hand Combat/Special Weapons School for instructors." There is also a section proclaiming "his ability to utilize and control the five types of mental, physical power utilized in combat by Hwarangdo warriors for over 2,000 years." I would love to loan you my book, there is lots of ki mumbo jumbo in this section. The knife disarms look like they come out of hapkido/aiki-jijistu and assume that the defender will have a fair amount of space around the attacker with which to set up the throw. Secondly they involve the "butterfly" hand lock and some have the defender apply the lock and then step all the way across the front of their attacker before executing the throw which seems pretty risky to yours truly.

        On page 16 he lists two SEALS "Master Chief Petty Officer Nissley/U.S. Naval Advisor USAJFKCENMA United States Navy" and "1st Class Petty Officer Paaine [original spelling has aa] SEAL Team II" If you know these guys please PM me I would love to ask them the contract question.

        Thanks

        Comment


          #5
          Hey Christian, I'll PM you some questions you can ask to figure out if the guy is a phony or not.
          "I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."


          - George Plimpton
          "Shadow Box"

          Comment


            #6
            Wastrel,
            Sorry... I don't have any contacts at/with "Delta" (they don't actually exist, you know). I would say, however, that the lid is so tight on the unit that anyone who admits membership would be immediately transferred out of the unit. Anyone who has openly or "semi" privately made claims of being a member of that unit is almost certainly NOT! You wouldn't believe some of the incredible BS lines I've heard from guys who claim to be SEALs, but who claim that their very existence has been expunged from ALL military archives to preserve "national security". It works for the James Bond films, but reality is far different.

            Send me a PM and I'll see if I can hook you up with someone who has appropriate contacts... or at least give you some additional ideas for verifying/denying the man's claims.
            Steve Robinson RM2(SEAL)
            USN 1970-1978
            SEAL Team ONE
            Inshore Undersea Warfare Group ONE
            -UDT-SEAL Association - Member
            -POW Network Board of Directors
            -Naval Special Warfare Archives - SOF Analyst/Contributing Journalist
            -Disabled American Veterans - Life Member
            -FORMER Special Investigator - SEAL Authentication Team
            -CyberSEALs.org - Webmaster
            -Author - NO GUTS, NO GLORY - Unmasking Navy SEAL Imposters

            Comment


              #7
              Maybe they should do what they do up here in Canada, chnage the names of the elite units every so often and tell no one about it.
              EX: the special service force became Joint Task Force 22 ( homage to the SAS Regiment 22) and now it has another name.
              Keeps the "fakers" on their toes cause you never know when the unit changed its name.

              Comment


                #8
                Then, of course, the Globe and Mail does a big story on JTF 2 in Afghanistan and suddenly every jackass in a bar becomes an ex-JTF 2 sniper. I'm sure that's probably one reason SEAL Team Six changed their name (there were other reasons too, but that's a long story. . .).
                "I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."


                - George Plimpton
                "Shadow Box"

                Comment


                  #9
                  Absoufreakinloutly !!
                  Tell me about it, I had guys asking me if there were any of them in Bosnia and how many and what "berets" did they wear, all kinds of stupid questions.
                  And I think in the US it has to be worst, I mean the "fame" of elite units such as SEAL TEAM SIX and of Marine Force Recon and Special Detachment Delta, are all well known, so it makes for easy "sucker set ups".
                  Sad, but true.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ronin, you would not believe the epidemic of wannabes and phonies you encounter here in the U.S. It boggles the mind.
                    "I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."


                    - George Plimpton
                    "Shadow Box"

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think there should be a law in the states that allows for "field" justice. If a sniper comes across a wannabe claiming to be the same, he can challenge the offender to a duel (at 1,000 yards). A SEAL would have the right to challenge the imposter to a 5,000 yard swim followed by CQB to the finish on the beach. Airborne/Ranger types can force the offender to demonstrate reserve procedures (at 500 feet after jumping without a main). You get the picture.

                      Yep, that's the answer. Winner not only gets to keep the offenders head as a trophy, but their wife/girlfriend as well.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Vargas
                        Ronin, you would not believe the epidemic of wannabes and phonies you encounter here in the U.S. It boggles the mind.
                        And the sad part is that many have served their country honorably...but just being a good sailer, solder, airman or Marine isn't good enough.....

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by punchingdummy
                          I think there should be a law in the states that allows for "field" justice. If a sniper comes across a wannabe claiming to be the same, he can challenge the offender to a duel (at 1,000 yards). A SEAL would have the right to challenge the imposter to a 5,000 yard swim followed by CQB to the finish on the beach. Airborne/Ranger types can force the offender to demonstrate reserve procedures (at 500 feet after jumping without a main). You get the picture.

                          Yep, that's the answer. Winner not only gets to keep the offenders head as a trophy, but their wife/girlfriend as well.
                          Now we're cooking with gas !!!!!
                          :D

                          Comment


                            #14
                            PART 1:
                            The reason the Special Operations Forces of the US (and other countries) are called "SPECIAL" and "ELITE" is because there just aren't that many of them. Yet I ran into a man who claims he was the only truck driver who ever served in Vietnam. In his experience EVERY swinging dick he'd ever met who "served in Vietnam" was either a SEAL, an Army "Green Beret", a "Ranger", a "Reconn Marine", or a "Scout Sniper"... and they all spent 110% of their time crawling through the elephant grass, the cogon grass, and the muddy shit ditches while hunting VC and VC Cadre... and they generally did it ALL ALONE!

                            Like I said, he claimed he was the only damned truck driver in the whole country. He actually gave up going into military bars because the "one-upsmanship" crap was so deep he could hardly wade to the bar for a drink... started drinking in "civilian bars where they just talk about girls and trucks and country music".
                            Steve Robinson RM2(SEAL)
                            USN 1970-1978
                            SEAL Team ONE
                            Inshore Undersea Warfare Group ONE
                            -UDT-SEAL Association - Member
                            -POW Network Board of Directors
                            -Naval Special Warfare Archives - SOF Analyst/Contributing Journalist
                            -Disabled American Veterans - Life Member
                            -FORMER Special Investigator - SEAL Authentication Team
                            -CyberSEALs.org - Webmaster
                            -Author - NO GUTS, NO GLORY - Unmasking Navy SEAL Imposters

                            Comment


                              #15
                              PART 2
                              Imposters, no matter WHAT branch of service or military unit they falsely claim, are depreciating the contributions of the REAL veterans of ALL units; they are a disgraceful insult to every man and woman who ever served honorably in any branch of the armed forces, no matter how mundane or elite their tsking. They tread heavily on the graves and honorable memories of our fallen comrades, the men who truly earned the titles and honors the imposter seeks to falsely coopt for himself

                              If they just run their mouths in a bar or dojo somewhere, there's nothing much that can be done... but if they cross the line and start displaying awards, badges, ribbons, unit emblems, etc, it's a violation of Title 18 of the United States Code, Sections 702 and 704a - $5,000 fine and 6 months JAIL for every conviction. A Class B misdemeanor.

                              If the Congressional Medal Of Honor is incolved then it's $10,000 and 1 year in JAIL... and they are classified for the rest of their life as a FELON
                              Steve Robinson RM2(SEAL)
                              USN 1970-1978
                              SEAL Team ONE
                              Inshore Undersea Warfare Group ONE
                              -UDT-SEAL Association - Member
                              -POW Network Board of Directors
                              -Naval Special Warfare Archives - SOF Analyst/Contributing Journalist
                              -Disabled American Veterans - Life Member
                              -FORMER Special Investigator - SEAL Authentication Team
                              -CyberSEALs.org - Webmaster
                              -Author - NO GUTS, NO GLORY - Unmasking Navy SEAL Imposters

                              Comment

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