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Instructor Bobby Joe Blythe watches/films a student attacking a man in his school

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    The real, physical address is sort of the smoking gun, here.

    Comment


      I don't know why an Arlington address was posted earlier. From what I have heard, the school was in Dumfries, VA, next to the Quantico Marine Base. Blythe's student Rob Zingg mentions the Dumfries school, "From 1972 through 1984 Mr. Zingg was the Senior Assistant Instructor at Shihan Blythe's school in Dumfries, Virginia and became the school manager in 1979. In 1984 he moved to Charles Town, West Virginia, where he opened his own school." (http://www.torakendo.com/Leadership/zingg.html).

      Zingg was there in '84, the date given by Blythe for the incident. You would think he would know who was there that night if he wasn't, but doesn't want to tell on the students.

      The school was in Prince William County, so why was a DC unsolved murder posted?

      You can only imagine how well connected an ex-marine was with law enforcement who teaches right off a big marine base, trains people to be bodyguards, right next to the FBI Academy.

      If they killed the guy, I would seriously doubt anyone would be stupid enough to ever post the video, much less ever teach again. The smug sensei probably never showed it to anyone, and his perception of it is skewed after having been there, thinking it was a good ass kicking memory. Well his mistake is the victim's gain....hopefully.

      Comment


        Originally posted by ASBELTOMATO View Post
        I don't know why an Arlington address was posted earlier. From what I have heard, the school was in Dumfries, VA, next to the Quantico Marine Base. Blythe's student Rob Zingg mentions the Dumfries school, "From 1972 through 1984 Mr. Zingg was the Senior Assistant Instructor at Shihan Blythe's school in Dumfries, Virginia and became the school manager in 1979. In 1984 he moved to Charles Town, West Virginia, where he opened his own school." (http://www.torakendo.com/Leadership/zingg.html).

        Zingg was there in '84, the date given by Blythe for the incident. You would think he would know who was there that night if he wasn't, but doesn't want to tell on the students.

        The school was in Prince William County, so why was a DC unsolved murder posted?

        You can only imagine how well connected an ex-marine was with law enforcement who teaches right off a big marine base, trains people to be bodyguards, right next to the FBI Academy.

        If they killed the guy, I would seriously doubt anyone would be stupid enough to ever post the video, much less ever teach again. The smug sensei probably never showed it to anyone, and his perception of it is skewed after having been there, thinking it was a good ass kicking memory. Well his mistake is the victim's gain....hopefully.
        That was my mistake, it was indeed Dumfries and not Arlington.

        Comment


          Originally posted by ASBELTOMATO View Post
          small world. my brother used to live a few blocks away, next to the george washington masonic national memorial.

          i noticed on the willie junior dennis myspace page a pic of him appearing with a friend to be masons? not sure, but it looked like some fraternal organization. wouldn't be surprised if he was a mason at the george washington national memorial, if that has a chapter.

          He said something on his myspace profile about loyal to the craft. That usually means Freemasonry or one of it's splinters.

          Comment


            from a prince william country police website:

            "if you have information about these or other crimes, or about a person you believe is responsible for a crime in Prince William County, please call Crime Solvers toll-free at 866-411-TIPS.

            If you would like to speak to someone to get advice on a situation that is civil in nature, please contact the Magistrate's Office:
            • 703-792-7360 (Woodbridge/eastern Prince William County).

            Criminal Investigations 703-792-7264"
            Last edited by ASBELTOMATO; 8/20/2009 2:08am, .

            Comment


              We do not know that this crime took place in 1984 and should not assume that such and such a missing person or John Doe is not the victim because the dates don't match.

              We know with 100% certainty that Blythe lied about the time / date or both as clearly indicated by the fact that he filmed the blood trail outside in bright sunlight, which, as a previous poster (props for that) pointed out, would have been impossible.

              From his "lectures" on his tapes he appears to be an unbalanced individual who believes that he is entitled to do whatever he wants in his own dojo.

              The Jesus Taught Me video is, IMO, a trophy.

              He has kept it to himself for years and probably enjoyed watching it in private. For some reason (senility triumphing over rationality?) he decided to upload the video onto my space.

              My speculative hypothesis would be that he just couldn't resist showing off about it. For him it was like hanging a hunting trophy on the wall.

              The accompanying text is something that, given Blythe's tendency to lie, should be taken with a large pinch of salt. However in the text he did mention another video that he would be uploading soon.

              We can only wonder at how many other trophy videos he has / had.

              I have looked at his dojo lecture videos countless times and after repeated watchings it is very clear that Dennis is Blythe's "enforcer". Dennis is the only one to change his position in the room while the other students remain pretty much stationary. Dennis moves around and behind Blythe and acts somewhat like a loyal dog, just like he does in the Jesus video where he says "your sensei is speaking to y'all".

              This dynamic between Blythe and Dennis contributes to the general atmosphere of menace in the dojo and it looks to me that the other students are being taught in a cult like environment where they are both flattered and threatened.

              What the bystanders did (or failed to do) was terrible, however they may very well have been shocked and scared. The dojo was not an environment where dissent against Blythe would have been tolerated.

              It's entirely possible that one or more of those present did not know how serious things would get. It's entirely possible that one or more of the bystanders left the dojo in shock or out of fear or disgust after witnessing this event. Given Blythe's police contacts it is understandable if such a person felt it pointless or even dangerous to report the assault to the cops.

              Such a person could be a good person inside and may have been living with this burden for decades.

              It is not the job or me or anyone else here to ID the bystanders and I do not think that the boards are the place for a criminal investigation, however we can however collect data to forward to the proper authorities.

              I would make a plea to those who witnessed this assault to think very carefully about their next move. You will be IDd sooner or later. The forensic technology available today can ID you from the blurry stills on this video. It is for you to decide whether you come forward now to give your side of the story or prefer to wait for the inevitable knock on the door.
              Last edited by littleoldme; 8/20/2009 3:19am, .

              Comment


                Originally posted by littleoldme View Post
                We do not know that this crime took place in 1984 and should not assume that such and such a missing person or John Doe is not the victim because the dates don't match.

                We know with 100% certainty that Blythe lied about the time / date or both as clearly indicated by the fact that he filmed the blood trail outside in bright sunlight, which, as a previous poster (props for that) pointed out, would have been impossible.

                From his "lectures" on his tapes he appears to be an unbalanced individual who believes that he is entitled to do whatever he wants in his own dojo.

                The Jesus Taught Me video is, IMO, a trophy.

                He has kept it to himself for years and probably enjoyed watching it in private. For some reason (senility triumphing over rationality?) he decided to upload the video onto my space.

                My speculative hypothesis would be that he just couldn't resist showing off about it. For him it was like hanging a hunting trophy on the wall.

                The accompanying text is something that, given Blythe's tendency to lie, should be taken with a large pinch of salt. However in the text he did mention another video that he would be uploading soon.

                We can only wonder at how many other trophy videos he has / had.

                I have looked at his dojo lecture videos countless times and after repeated watchings it is very clear that Dennis is Blythe's "enforcer". Dennis is the only one to change his position in the room while the other students remain pretty much stationary. Dennis moves around and behind Blythe and acts somewhat like a loyal dog, just like he does in the Jesus video where he says "your sensei is speaking to y'all".

                This dynamic between Blythe and Dennis contributes to the general atmosphere of menace in the dojo and it looks to me that the other students are being taught in a cult like environment where they are both flattered and threatened.

                What the bystanders did (or failed to do) was terrible, however they may very well have been shocked and scared. The dojo was not an environment where dissent against Blythe would have been tolerated.

                It's entirely possible that one or more of those present did not know how serious things would get. It's entirely possible that one or more of the bystanders left the dojo in shock or out of fear or disgust after witnessing this event. Given Blythe's police contacts it is understandable if such a person felt it pointless or even dangerous to report the assault to the cops.

                Such a person could be a good person inside and may have been living with this burden for decades.

                It is not the job or me or anyone else here to ID the bystanders and I do not think that the boards are the place for a criminal investigation, however we can however collect data to forward to the proper authorities.

                I would make a plea to those who witnessed this assault to think very carefully about their next move. You will be IDd sooner or later. The forensic technology available today can ID you from the blurry stills on this video. It is for you to decide whether you come forward now to give your side of the story or prefer to wait for the inevitable knock on the door.
                Very well said indeed. That is the dynamic people are being manipulated in the process, though obviously the more sensational aspects of the situation take precedence.... neck stepping makes people gasp while the psychological abuse of the rest of these 'followers' is not an immediatte issue.

                Littleoldme's understanding can truly bear fruit as one way to get the top dogs is to pressure the pack from the bottom up... And while I understand people's reasons why thy didn't that night they could have subsequently to that night done something and:

                a) if they did that is a trail.
                b) shake them up enough and they will.

                People might have ethics that say it is not fair to shake these people up, again sorry part of living in a civil society is not letting predators like these two bullies trophy hunt... not one of the people witnessing this even would hesitate to report this is they thought they might be in the victim's situation.

                Comment


                  Just a few more thoughts

                  We need an edited movie of the assault that is safe to send to all kinds of forums.

                  I have not been able to circulate this as widely as I would like to simply because the Jesus movie looks like a snuff movie and I would get banned from some other forums I post on for posting up a link to such a video.

                  We have the entire, unedited version here should people want to see it, but we need an edited version with subtitles and with titles covering the graphic head stomping and guglring bit as they are very traumatic to watch.

                  My suggestion would be as follows:

                  We make 3 videos from the material we have. Once we have all the transcriptions this should not be too much work as the subtitles can be C&Pd.

                  The first is an edited version of Jesus Taught Me that has the video images of the head stomping are covered by titles describing what happened. The video resumes for the blood trail. It is important to show the blood trail as it is a clear indication of the fact that the video is a trophy as well as speaking volumes about Blythe's character.

                  This first video should be subtitled as the audio is poor. It should also, IMO, start with titles explaing that we don't know who the victim is, that various unreliable claims have been made as to his state of mind and his activities immediately prior to the video.

                  The video should end with an appeal for information regarding the ID's of the people involved, possibly inviting them to contact admin here, or the approipriate investigating agency if, by then, one is involved.

                  Video 2 is composed of edits from the dojo lectures. It should be subtitled and be divided into clips seperated by titles. The titles should simply state, for example, "Bobby Joe Blythe's teachings on dojo etiquette", "Bobby Joe Blythe's claims regarding his relationship with his local police officers", "Bobby Joe Blythe's teachings on sexuality" etc. This video should be subtitled. There is no need for anything dramatic or emotive to be added as the content is dramatic enough and we should stick to facts. People can watch and draw their own conclusions. The aim of this video is to bring the relevant aspects of the dojo videos together in way that is easy for people to digest without having to listen intently to loads of video footage.

                  The 3rd video will consist of clips and stills from the other videos and from screen grabs that piece the story together. So it would include stills of the bystanders, clips from the female bodyguard movies, all kinds of information that may help, and will also show that a community of concerned martial artists are doing the best we can to find out what happend to the victim and to bring those responsible to justice.

                  Then we need the wiki page. This should consist of a reporting of the facts and will include links to the videos and transcriptions of the exchanges in the videos.

                  It might also be helpful to have a blow by blow account of the various attacks on the victim, in detail, on a time line.

                  These are just my provisional thoughts, please feel free to critique, change, contribute, whatever.
                  Last edited by littleoldme; 8/20/2009 4:05am, .

                  Comment


                    Just one more thought re the media

                    I'm not sure that contacting as many media outlets as possible is the best move

                    IME they all love an exclusive and any time you take them a story their first questions are along the lines of "do you have any exclusive material?" and "has anyone else covered the story"

                    FWIW I still have more videos that I have yet to upload. I wonder whether it might be best to keep working on producing our videos / wiki page while taking time to ID a respected journalist with a background in civil rights and then to give them exclusive access to the remaining videos?

                    I have to go and get some work done, just sharing a few thoughts right now

                    Comment


                      Just one more thought

                      I wonder if we should change the title of the thread?

                      The victim could have been mentally ill / have a learning disability / been high but he could simply just be a hip young man who didn't "fit it" with the local idea of how a young man should look.

                      Some people who are sound of mind believe that Jesus taught them all kinds of things.

                      We don't really know anything about the man other than that he is quiet, non aggressive and a Christian, probably with some kind of MA training.

                      I think that something like
                      Instructor watches/films a student attacking an innocent man in his school

                      would be more appropriate

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by marrk
                        is it me or does BJB deserve a wiki page? There's enough factual information now...
                        we're working on it

                        Comment


                          Ok, looking up Napa, its address is listed as 928 N Main St Dumfries, VA 22026.


                          Currently at that location are houses (a new development). Anyways looking back at the description on how the victim was remove from a pizza hut I can come to a conclusion that all of the surrounding businesses have been removed or this was another Napa store. Certainly not the one in question.

                          There is a pizza hut in dumfries/ triangle but the location is a ways from the location of the Napa store (not even close to walking) and I dont see how the pizza hut would know of the dojo.

                          Another interesting thing is that where the Pizza Hut is now, there is a shopping center within walking distance from it (dumfries plaza, 17988 Fraley Blvd, Dumfries, VA).
                          It is very and I mean very conceivable that this plaza was the location that the beating took place. There may have been a Napa there at one point. The strip mall (shopping center) could have certainly received a face lift overtime, but as far as I know it this is the only place where something like this could have occurred. Most of the businesses on Rt.1 near quantico have been torn down due to a beautification project.

                          Google the fraley blvd to get a street view to see what I mean.

                          oh and BTW, to the back of the shopping center is a bad part of the triangle/ dumfries area. Trust me I know. Daredevil, the Pizza Hut I speak of is next to Jo-Jos.

                          I say all of this with the following cavet. I moved to NVA in 1998. I moved to dumfries in 2008.
                          Last edited by hfam95; 8/20/2009 6:29am, .

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by littleoldme View Post
                            We do not know that this crime took place in 1984 and should not assume that such and such a missing person or John Doe is not the victim because the dates don't match.

                            We know with 100% certainty that Blythe lied about the time / date or both as clearly indicated by the fact that he filmed the blood trail outside in bright sunlight, which, as a previous poster (props for that) pointed out, would have been impossible.

                            From his "lectures" on his tapes he appears to be an unbalanced individual who believes that he is entitled to do whatever he wants in his own dojo.

                            The Jesus Taught Me video is, IMO, a trophy.

                            He has kept it to himself for years and probably enjoyed watching it in private. For some reason (senility triumphing over rationality?) he decided to upload the video onto my space.

                            My speculative hypothesis would be that he just couldn't resist showing off about it. For him it was like hanging a hunting trophy on the wall.

                            The accompanying text is something that, given Blythe's tendency to lie, should be taken with a large pinch of salt. However in the text he did mention another video that he would be uploading soon.

                            We can only wonder at how many other trophy videos he has / had.

                            I have looked at his dojo lecture videos countless times and after repeated watchings it is very clear that Dennis is Blythe's "enforcer". Dennis is the only one to change his position in the room while the other students remain pretty much stationary. Dennis moves around and behind Blythe and acts somewhat like a loyal dog, just like he does in the Jesus video where he says "your sensei is speaking to y'all".

                            This dynamic between Blythe and Dennis contributes to the general atmosphere of menace in the dojo and it looks to me that the other students are being taught in a cult like environment where they are both flattered and threatened.

                            What the bystanders did (or failed to do) was terrible, however they may very well have been shocked and scared. The dojo was not an environment where dissent against Blythe would have been tolerated.

                            It's entirely possible that one or more of those present did not know how serious things would get. It's entirely possible that one or more of the bystanders left the dojo in shock or out of fear or disgust after witnessing this event. Given Blythe's police contacts it is understandable if such a person felt it pointless or even dangerous to report the assault to the cops.

                            Such a person could be a good person inside and may have been living with this burden for decades.

                            It is not the job or me or anyone else here to ID the bystanders and I do not think that the boards are the place for a criminal investigation, however we can however collect data to forward to the proper authorities.

                            I would make a plea to those who witnessed this assault to think very carefully about their next move. You will be IDd sooner or later. The forensic technology available today can ID you from the blurry stills on this video. It is for you to decide whether you come forward now to give your side of the story or prefer to wait for the inevitable knock on the door.
                            Actually, at least one of the bystanders actively pushed the victim back toward Dennis near the end of the battery, so it is our job to ID him. And the rest, while perhaps not criminally culpable, are witnesses to a crime, and thus fair game. SO I don't agree that it isn't our job to ID the bystanders, or, for that matter that this board isn't a place for investigating a brutal battery. You are about as wrong as you can get.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by hfam95 View Post
                              Currently at that location are houses (a new development). Anyways looking back at the description on how the victim was remove from a pizza hut I can come to a conclusion that all of the surrounding businesses have been removed or this was another Napa store. Certainly not the one in question.
                              .
                              The Pizza hut incident was not even the same day IMO but was where BJB first learned about the victim, I get the impression BJB was security at the mall where the Pizza hut was but could be wrong on that one. Possibly the Pizza incident was where BJB told the victim about his club and invited him along to demonstrate?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by crappler View Post
                                Actually, at least one of the bystanders actively pushed the victim back toward Dennis near the end of the battery, so it is our job to ID him. And the rest, while perhaps not criminally culpable, are witnesses to a crime, and thus fair game. SO I don't agree that it isn't our job to ID the bystanders, or, for that matter that this board isn't a place for investigating a brutal battery. You are about as wrong as you can get.
                                If you have access to a properly equipped forensic lab where you can ID people with 100% certainty by comparing old photos and film footage, then please be my guest.

                                I do not have access to these resources. I can do a half way competent job using photoshop (in fact I have done this) but it would be very wrong of my to post speculative hypotheses about this on the boards based on my work as feelings are running high and people are making all kinds of threats to people not actually involved.

                                I am more than happy to submit my (very) provisional findings to the appropriate investigating authorities.

                                Also anyone could come here and say it was this or that person, or it wasn't me.

                                We have no way of determining who is telling the truth and who is not.

                                We are no running a court of law here, just collecting data, the relevance of which may only become apparent at a later date.

                                It is not our job to accuse or convict people, just to collect data to be handed over to the media and later to whoever investigates this.

                                The last thing we want is for another assault to happen because someone here posted the name of an innocent person in error. Feelings are running very high and we can't control how people respond to stuff posted here so we have to proceed with caution.

                                Comment

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