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Portugal Jujitsu Shihan Helder Nunes

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    #46
    Mr. manlobeiro,

    I do get it. It is YOU who doesn't get it - at least not completely. I did some of the research. I do not know anything about Mr. Lavigne, and will not put words in his mouth. Perhaps his students might come on and say something. But basically Nunes has done trips and seminars to Canada, a while ago and people have attended. It does not make them "students" anymore than getting an autograph of Silva Ferreira makes me a Football star.

    I contacted Mr. Mike Carrier (aka Tapout74) about his relationship with Nunes the day you posted the OP. On my public page he replied...

    Originally posted by Tapout74
    I severed all ties with him over a year ago. What I had with Helder was simply that I had become a member of JJI which was founded by Soke Richard Morris... I'm not an original student of Helder.
    Mr. manloberio, Do not presume to know everything, investigations may take time. As I requested, give evidence of Nunes BJJ allegations and I promise you people (at least myself) will react.

    *But be prepared for "quid pro quo' under which branch do you train BJJ?

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by KO'd N DOA View Post
      Mr. manlobeiro,

      I do get it. It is YOU who doesn't get it - at least not completely. I did some of the research. I do not know anything about Mr. Lavigne, and will not put words in his mouth. Perhaps his students might come on and say something. But basically Nunes has done trips and seminars to Canada, a while ago and people have attended. It does not make them "students" anymore than getting an autograph of Silva Ferreira makes me a Football star.

      I contacted Mr. Mike Carrier (aka Tapout74) about his relationship with Nunes the day you posted the OP. On my public page he replied...



      Mr. manloberio, Do not presume to know everything, investigations may take time. As I requested, give evidence of Nunes BJJ allegations and I promise you people (at least myself) will react.

      *But be prepared for "quid pro quo' under which branch do you train BJJ?
      http://www.jiujitsuinternational.co....r_portugal.phphttp://www.bptjiujitsu.com/default.asp?m=0&lang=pt

      Apologize for my poor english expression, i have learned it many years ago, so all your bad comprehension must be my fault.
      Cheers

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by manlobeiro View Post
        If i do it, surely you will claim that i invented those things, so just dial the phone to Portugal, Spain, England, Portugal indicative is +351 , and do your own research if you are interested.
        If you are not interested, dont do it, but also dont make me to pass as a smearer, and threat of deleting this thread, just because for timidity or lazyness you dont wat to check for yourself.
        Uhm... just imagine a few hundred readers of bullshido individually following your advice. All calling the same numbers within a few days. I doubt the persons/contacts you posted would actually like that...

        There are different transscriptions of the japanese term 柔術 which itself adresses a wide range of quite different schools.

        In some languages the correct transscription would be "JuJutsu", in others "Jiu Jitsu" or "JuJitsu"... the combinations used are probably endless. If you use Germany as an example, then you will find out that different schools and clubs use different transscriptions, whilst still adressing the same martial art.

        Its much like the infamous _ing _un.

        I train in Jiu Jitsu, yet its not brazilian. The fact that he uses different transscriptions can not be taken as proof of him claiming a BJJ belt of whatsoever color.

        Oh and btw... afaik a rokudan holder is still largely considered a "blackbelt". So alternatingly using the terms "6th dan" and "blackbelt" would not be contradictory or misleading either.

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by kwan_dao View Post
          Uhm... just imagine a few hundred readers of bullshido individually following your advice. All calling the same numbers within a few days. I doubt the persons/contacts you posted would actually like that...



          There are different transscriptions of the japanese term 柔術 which itself adresses a wide range of quite different schools.

          In some languages the correct transscription would be "JuJutsu", in others "Jiu Jitsu" or "JuJitsu"... the combinations used are probably endless. If you use Germany as an example, then you will find out that different schools and clubs use different transscriptions, whilst still adressing the same martial art.

          Its much like the infamous _ing _un.

          I train in Jiu Jitsu, yet its not brazilian. The fact that he uses different transscriptions can not be taken as proof of him claiming a BJJ belt of whatsoever color.

          Oh and btw... afaik a rokudan holder is still largely considered a "blackbelt". So alternatingly using the terms "6th dan" and "blackbelt" would not be contradictory or misleading either.
          I dont believe that a few hundred bullshido readers are interested in this subject.
          I believe that very few people are interested in reaching to the bottom of this.
          Mainly i know now that the most interested people in not finding what is going on, are the ones that received grades from Mr. Nunes.

          As i mentioned before, maybe i dont make myself clear. Using two different words in the same webpage does not have to do with the correct kanji translation. I hold a black belt in Jujutsu. I dont boast about having a black belt in Jujutsu, a black belt in Jujitsu, a black belt in Jiujitsu, etc.

          Again, probably i have not made myself clear.

          Alright, Mr. Nunes win. I know when to stop. It was my mistake to present this in bullshido. Mr. Nunes is a wonderful person, a great martial artist, a cool guy, very energetic, a great man.
          I am a liar, a smearer, a jealous person, a bad person, i have no evidence of my badmouthing campaign, i should be ashamed of myself, i apologize for all my dreadfull lies, people like me should be expelled from the martial world.
          Congratulations Mr. Nunes, you have won.
          Cheers to all, sorry for the trouble

          Comment


            #50
            I did a little digging myself last night and talked to Pat L about Helder. And I took alook at Helder's site also.
            1) Helder does not say he has a black belt in BJJ, but he saus he has an "Instructor level" in BJJ. That translates to a purple belt. It was given to him from the head of Gracie JJ in France with whom Helder has been taking lessons from. Pat has gone down there several times in the past year to help Helder teach seminars and to go to gradings with him.
            2) As for the 7th dan, I was mistaken. It was offered to Helder from Prof Morris and Helder refused it. He did not feel it was right at the time or that he was ready for it. he told Prof Morris he felt he was too young at this time for it. Besides as we all more or less know, after 4th dan, most belts are at the discretion of the senior instructors and time lines can be varried. There is a set amount of time but this can be waived with certain conditions.
            3) All this stuff about Helder comes only after his organization beacame a full Federation in Portugal. Funny isn't it.
            I have heard that there are some people from WEBBS there that do not like Helder and are trying to soil his name.. I don't know if that is true but I hope to god no one from WEBBS is that stupid and would try to ruin the organization that way.
            If they are doing such they should back the fuck off as I am sure Soke Cheek would not be impressed in any way by it.
            Deception is one thing, but to creat an outright lie is something that would never be forgiven in WEBBS.
            4) There are a few reasons Helder and WEBBS broke apart but I will not get into them here as I don't think it really is anyones business but WEBBS abd Helders....
            I respect both organizations greatly. JJI and WEBBS and have been members of both as well as being a current member of WEBBS but I have been invited to rejoin JJF as well.
            Whoever is doing all this is not doing anything good for either organization.
            As for Mike Carrier. He has not been known as Warriors of God for a while.. His school is UMMA here in Ottawa.
            Heler also won the Paris Open in 2001. Pat has seen the awards and has talked to many instructors that have verified it. Many are not even Helders students or associates.
            Last edited by kellyd; 4/03/2009 6:27am, .

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by kellyd View Post
              I did a little digging myself last night and talked to Pat L about Helder. And I took alook at Helder's site also.
              1) Helder does not say he has a black belt in BJJ, but he saus he has an "Instructor level" in BJJ. That translates to a purple belt. It was given to him from the head of Gracie JJ in France with whom Helder has been taking lessons from. Pat has gone down there several times in the past year to help Helder teach seminars and to go to gradings with him.
              2) As for the 7th dan, I was mistaken. It was offered to Helder from Prof Morris and Helder refused it. He did not feel it was right at the time or that he was ready for it. he told Prof Morris he felt he was too young at this time for it. Besides as we all more or less know, after 4th dan, most belts are at the discretion of the senior instructors and time lines can be varried. There is a set amount of time but this can be waived with certain conditions.
              3) All this stuff about Helder comes only after his organization beacame a full Federation in Portugal. Funny isn't it.
              I have heard that there are some people from WEBBS there that do not like Helder and are trying to soil his name.. I don't know if that is true but I hope to god no one from WEBBS is that stupid and would try to ruin the organization that way.
              If they are doing such they should back the fuck off as I am sure Soke Cheek would not be impressed in any way by it.
              Deception is one thing, but to creat an outright lie is something that would never be forgiven in WEBBS.
              4) There are a few reasons Helder and WEBBS broke apart but I will not get into them here as I don't think it really is anyones business but WEBBS abd Helders....
              I respect both organizations greatly. JJI and WEBBS and have been members of both as well as being a current member of WEBBS but I have been invited to rejoin JJF as well.
              Whoever is doing all this is not doing anything good for either organization.
              As for Mike Carrier. He has not been known as Warriors of God for a while.. His school is UMMA here in Ottawa.
              Heler also won the Paris Open in 2001. Pat has seen the awards and has talked to many instructors that have verified it. Many are not even Helders students or associates.
              http://jujitsuemportugal.no.sapo.pt/http://www.ishinryu.com/dojo_alvalade.shtml

              Do you have any hard proof of what you claim?
              Please say who gave him lessons and belts in France so i can check it.
              Come on, get your act together.
              But you made me laugh, thank you.

              Comment


                #52

                Comment


                  #53
                  Yes, sir we agree that this thread should be deleted, because now is clear to me who you are.
                  Altough is also clear why you want this thread deleted.
                  Know i strongly believe that you are Mr. Nunes himself, not only the way you write 'Maybe he passed you by for an exam.' is not gramatically correct, so i must assume that you are not native from an english spoken country.
                  Nevermind who you are.
                  I have written in February, before you registered in this forum, a letter asking these things.
                  I got an answer from Soke Cheek himself.
                  If any reader believes that i did not forged out of a grudge :D please contact me in [email protected]

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Wrong website, this will stay up.

                    It might be moved out of this sub forum but, it isn't going to be deleted.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Last edited by manlobeiro; 4/03/2009 8:37am, .

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Actually I gave you my name and email before as well.. Soke CHeek knows who I am and I am not Helder.. AS I said, I am only a 4th dan.
                        AS for saying that you were "Passe by for an exam". It is common here.. Sorry if you do not know that. It is tha same as being passed over.
                        I have talled to Soke Cheek and all he would say is "It's a shame". when asked about the situation. Pat L can be contacted at his own email. When I talke dto him, he said he knows who you are and that you are not worth debating this over.
                        SO I shall take a lead from him and wont bother with this anymore.
                        AS for contactin Soke Cheek.. By all means, please do and tell him Kelly from Ottawa says hello. he and I have been friends since the late 80, early 90's when he was teaching with Soke Morris.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by kellyd View Post
                          AS for saying that you were "Passe by for an exam". It is common here.. Sorry if you do not know that. It is tha same as being passed over.
                          ...and this is why it stays.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by kellyd View Post
                            Actually I gave you my name and email before as well.. Soke CHeek knows who I am and I am not Helder.. AS I said, I am only a 4th dan.
                            AS for saying that you were "Passe by for an exam". It is common here.. Sorry if you do not know that. It is tha same as being passed over.
                            I have talled to Soke Cheek and all he would say is "It's a shame". when asked about the situation. Pat L can be contacted at his own email. When I talke dto him, he said he knows who you are and that you are not worth debating this over.
                            SO I shall take a lead from him and wont bother with this anymore.
                            AS for contactin Soke Cheek.. By all means, please do and tell him Kelly from Ottawa says hello. he and I have been friends since the late 80, early 90's when he was teaching with Soke Morris.
                            Dont be offended please. You have any proof of what you say?
                            If i am recquired to give proof, i think you should give proof too, dont you agree?
                            Well, you have talked with Soke Cheek, ok, forgive me if i say that its just your word.
                            Well, either Pat is mistaken, or Pat is a liar, or you are a liar, since i am not knowned in the martial world, i just practice, i have never been with Mr. Pat so, how can he know me?
                            I dont know him.
                            I did contact Soke Cheek, before you registered in Bullshido, and i got an answer.

                            From you, i got no answer to the legit questions i presented.
                            Come on, please answer.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Pat told me he knew of you and that you were talking the same stuff for a while now and not to bother as you seem to have a hate on.
                              BUt hey.. I have my information as to what I have been told as do you. I have given my full real name and email address and people who know me here and in England that can verify who I am and my rank.. BUt you have given nothing of the sort. NO real name, no school where you study, no organization if you are member of one.
                              If you have nothing to gain and are doing this to be honest and have nothing to lose or fear then why not put up your real name and where you study. What school, what style, how long have you studied? how did you manage to get hold of such documents that were considered fakes? I am sure someone else must have a copy of these on a website or organization site to back up the claim.
                              Pat and I may not always see eye to eye but I will not hang a man without being 100% sure of what the charges are against him.
                              I even told Pat that if this does turn out to be true, I will tell Helder to go F*#& himself hard. Pat agreed with me.
                              I really have no reason to doubt Helder and since Soke MOrris gave him his current rank, are you calling SOke Morris a liar??
                              And as for a comment you made beforehand, I have never said anyone on here was stupid.
                              I also told you that Helder was awarded his BJJ purple belt from the head of Gracie JJ in France.. Look him up and ask him.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by kellyd View Post
                                Actually I gave you my name and email before as well.. Soke CHeek knows who I am and I am not Helder.. AS I said, I am only a 4th dan..
                                Hmm, as someone from Ottawa who has never been to a Helder Nunes seminar, nor recieved a belt from him(should I fell left out?), I can verify that Kelly would never be mistaken from Helder. I believe Helder being taller would be one clue, right Kelly?

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