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Portugal Jujitsu Shihan Helder Nunes

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    #16
    Originally posted by kwan_dao View Post
    I do not know how ranking is done in Portugal, but hereabouts (Germany/Austria/Switzerland) ranking commissions are pretty standard.

    So if you have a 1st dan and think you are ready for second, you just attend the next test (most organizations hold them pretty regularly), show the commission what you learned and if they think you fullfill the standards of a 2nd dan, you get ranked.

    This of course means, that people do not have to wait for their teachers to bestow the magical spell of "I ranketh thee blackbelt" onto them. Which might mean that they rank faster then with traditional ranking.

    Add to that the fact that many organizations see all belts above 5th dan as purely honorary ranks (e.g. you can't test for them, but get them as a reward for exceptional commitment) and you get the picture of how a younger person might end up with a 6th dan.
    Tests are indeed given here that way as well. Up to 4th dan. After all, it is at the discretion of the higher belts.
    I know Helder was given a higher rank when he was "Asked to leave" WEBBS and joined JJI.
    This is another practice I don't agree with. leave on and join another and be granted a higher rank just for it.

    I would love to have some of Helders old teachers weigh in on this issue.

    Comment


      #17
      I've never met Helder Nunes, but I've trained under Pat Lavigne (from Balance Martial Arts, Nomad Kickboxing, etc) and he was as real as it gets. He was a top-notch teacher and he obviously knew what he was doing. No bullshido. No McDojo shadiness. All skill, all knowledge, all professionalism and all class. He could teach new things even to the most seasoned of judo, jiu-jistu, wrestling, grappling, submissions (vets).

      The reason I mention this is is that Pat Lavigne and his school have organized seminars by Helder Nunes in Ottawa. Additionally, I know that Pat has trained with / for Helder Nunes in Portugal and in other parts of Europe.

      Pat speaks (or at least spoke) very highly of Helder Nunes so, unless some shadiness has been discovered over the past little while, I will trust his judgement.

      And, should it be discovered that Helder Nunes truly is a fraud, then I think that it should not reflect on the quality and professionalism of training that one will receive from Pat Lavigne and his team at Balance Martial Arts and Nomad Kickboxing.

      He is an awesome teacher than I would reccommend to anyone, PERIOD, without a doubt in my mind.

      Comment


        #18
        Pat has been a friend of mine since he was in grade school. We studied under Gary Houldsworth together and under Soke Bryan Cheek.
        I know Pat got his 4th dan from Helder but I am not sure what else.
        Pat is indeed a great martial artists.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Keej613 View Post
          I've never met Helder Nunes, but I've trained under Pat Lavigne (from Balance Martial Arts, Nomad Kickboxing, etc) and he was as real as it gets. He was a top-notch teacher and he obviously knew what he was doing. No bullshido. No McDojo shadiness. All skill, all knowledge, all professionalism and all class. He could teach new things even to the most seasoned of judo, jiu-jistu, wrestling, grappling, submissions (vets).

          The reason I mention this is is that Pat Lavigne and his school have organized seminars by Helder Nunes in Ottawa. Additionally, I know that Pat has trained with / for Helder Nunes in Portugal and in other parts of Europe.

          Pat speaks (or at least spoke) very highly of Helder Nunes so, unless some shadiness has been discovered over the past little while, I will trust his judgement.

          And, should it be discovered that Helder Nunes truly is a fraud, then I think that it should not reflect on the quality and professionalism of training that one will receive from Pat Lavigne and his team at Balance Martial Arts and Nomad Kickboxing.

          He is an awesome teacher than I would reccommend to anyone, PERIOD, without a doubt in my mind.

          Well, it seems that i am alone, and that my effort is being taken as 'badmouthing'.
          I dont want Helder Nunes beaten, or his life ruined. I just want him out of martial arts world, because he teaches others, what he dont know.
          I am a very bad person, that speaks bad of others, maybe im not worthy of the Bushido way. Maybe i am the wrongdoer here.


          About 8, nine years he was a blue belt from Algarve teacher Leote Menau. He went to study Law to Coimbra, and he got a brown belt in Judo, from my Sensei Alain. In the fencing department of our University, he forged government declarations of high competition athletes and sold them until it was all found.
          Please contact http://www.academica.pt/Default3.aspx?tabId=1871www.fpj.pt
          Contact www.jujutsu.pthttp://senseiheldernunes.blogspot.com/


          I am not the author of this blog. A simple search in google, is preferible, sometimes to blindly defend someone on the basis of empathy.


          Cheers

          Comment


            #20
            My friend.. I am part of WEBBS.. I was there before Helder was.
            I will not badmouth you or try to say you are jealous either.. I am sure you have a valid claim..BUt I am saying I will not jump on the bandwagon before I have real proof. And I would say that if anyone told me the same of any of you if I knew you as a friend as well.

            Comment


              #21
              As you might imagine, i do not have real proof.
              The forged diploma misteriously disapeared.
              Since you belong to WEBBS talk to Sensei Cheek and ask him why was this genius expelled or 'asked to leave'.
              If you dont know, you will be informed that the 4th Dan was given to Sensei Nunes on the account of being uke to Sensei Cheek, in Portugal on a seminar, because he was beaten so badly that he 'deserved' to be promoted.
              I have explained how he climbed so fast in this business. Make your own conclusions and act according your choices, and i ask anyone to present proof that Shihan Helder Nunes deserves his ...graduation of 6th Dan at such a young age.
              Can anyone tell me what technical skill or profound knowledge justify his grade?
              Cheers

              Comment


                #22
                Well hell.. If he got it for that, then I should be an 8th dan..lol I have been doing seminars with Soke Cheek since the 90's and have had regular beatings..lol
                Actually Helder was ejected from WEBBS for conducting seminars when he was just going to visit people. We have a system where we ask other instructors if they are interested in hosting seminars before we come. He was having people book seminars for him then doing the trips.
                He was doing this outside of proper channels as was one of his friends. They were both asked to leave WEBBS at this point.
                He was charging for the seminars under the WEBBS banner and going to schools not with WEBBS.
                Not that there is anything wrong with it and we encourage it (visiting other schools to teach our style of jiu jitsu). But most often, we will do it for free. Unless it is an advanced course or the full course in a weekend thing for advanced belts.
                I do believe there was a little more to it than that but that happened 2 yrs ago or slightly more.
                For the sake of the people he tested, I hope this turns out to be a mistake.. I would hate to think of all the work they put into this and then found out it was all for nothing.
                I, myself would honour the degree they have if they could prove it was with good merit and had the ablility to back up what they have.
                Show me the skills and teach a few classes with proper protocol.
                Hell. I am 41 and just got my 4th dan 2 yrs ago. I had to work pretty damn long and pretty damn hard to get it as well.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by manlobeiro View Post
                  As you might imagine, i do not have real proof.
                  Cheers
                  Last time I looked, accusing someone without "real proof", on the basis of hearsay and badmouthing, that may well be the product of pure dojo-politics, was not the right way to handle things.

                  @kellyd: I do not know Mr. Nunes or WEBBS. I just happened to pass by and take an interest in this thread because it somehow relates to Jiu Jitsu and Europe.

                  From that point of view: What you described sounds like a bad case of politicianism and nitpicking on the side of WEBBS. If "arranging seminars in the wrong way" is the only substantial case against Mr. Nunes and that alone lead to his departure from WEBBS, then I do not see how this would put even the lightest shade of doubt on him personally, his rank, or his teaching.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by kwan_dao View Post
                    Last time I looked, accusing someone without "real proof", on the basis of hearsay and badmouthing, that may well be the product of pure dojo-politics, was not the right way to handle things.

                    @kellyd: I do not know Mr. Nunes or WEBBS. I just happened to pass by and take an interest in this thread because it somehow relates to Jiu Jitsu and Europe.

                    From that point of view: What you described sounds like a bad case of politicianism and nitpicking on the side of WEBBS. If "arranging seminars in the wrong way" is the only substantial case against Mr. Nunes and that alone lead to his departure from WEBBS, then I do not see how this would put even the lightest shade of doubt on him personally, his rank, or his teaching.
                    Well I never said this was the only reason. I said I was sure there was a little more in there as well. I am just unsure as to what it was so I did not say I knew for sure what it was. I never asked why he and the other fellow were asked to leave. But he was asked to leave the organization along with one of his Canadian counterparts. It didn't effect me so I didn't bother to question it.
                    I do know there are some video's on You Tube now of Helder, his jiu jitsu and what other people are calling him.

                    I just have not seen any real proof yet of what they say he did. So I stay with my oppinion.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Youtube does not really help (at least me) to substantiate the claims against him.

                      I found three vids with the tag "Helder Nunes". Namely:

                      1. A preview on some DVD-instructionals he did:

                      YouTube - Jiu Jitsu

                      Looks pretty standard to me. Nothing too obviously bad (not that I would claim expertise) from my point of view.

                      2. On the other hand, there are two vids with practically no content, especially no proof of anything, but the obvious intent to degrade his credibility.

                      YouTube - Ju Jitsu Hélder Nunes

                      This is the longer one, there is a shorter version with identical makeup.

                      For me this starts to look like a (very badly done) smear-campaign.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        I know.. I saw the training video and it was ok.. Same stuff we all teach in JuKo Shin Ryu with some added things. If you look at Soke Bryan Cheek's dvds as well, they are the same.
                        It does look like someone is going out of their way to smear him.
                        Like I said, I need hard proof. But I will not say the original author of this thread is lying as well.. He may be 100% correct and true to his word. But I need to be sure without doubt before I say anything either way. It is too easy to call someone a fraud and it could really happen to any of us on here at anytime.
                        I am sure we would like to have proof one way or another if that were the case.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by kwan_dao View Post
                          Last time I looked, accusing someone without "real proof", on the basis of hearsay and badmouthing, that may well be the product of pure dojo-politics, was not the right way to handle things.

                          @kellyd: I do not know Mr. Nunes or WEBBS. I just happened to pass by and take an interest in this thread because it somehow relates to Jiu Jitsu and Europe.

                          From that point of view: What you described sounds like a bad case of politicianism and nitpicking on the side of WEBBS. If "arranging seminars in the wrong way" is the only substantial case against Mr. Nunes and that alone lead to his departure from WEBBS, then I do not see how this would put even the lightest shade of doubt on him personally, his rank, or his teaching.
                          I can understand that my thread might look as badmouthing.
                          In fact, sometimes i get so angry an powerless, that i feel i am wasting my time. And i am. How can i prove that he forged a diploma, a diploma that is missing?
                          How can i prove that he is a fraud, that he has less than 40 years and is already 6th Dan, that in my country takes 25 years to achieve?
                          How can i prove the threats he made when i first exposed him, how can i prove the campaigns he or his students make on the internet to clean his image?
                          How can i make understand that he is a liar and extorsionist to his pupils?
                          Even if i could bring any shred of evidence, what good would that make? He would not be punished because of his deceit. This forum his big, but the martial arts word is bigger. He will continue to go to seminars and pretending to be a great master, and teaching what he doesnt know to good faithfull people, that might need self defense one day, and his self defense might not be...efective.
                          Whatever i do, him, his students or people like kwan dao will defend him, will take his side...just because i cannot prove by hard evidence what i say, so i am a badmother and a dojo politician. I assure that i do not teach anyone, i dont have a dojo, nor am i defending any dojo...how can i prove that too?...
                          Just because i cannot prove it i cannot be taken as a liar or as someone with a hidden agenda, if you make me so, then you are badmouthing me.
                          Helder Nunes as a Judo practioner (1st kyu) is very...weak. As i have said, contact his former teachers. An email is not expensive.
                          I can 'prove' that he commits plagium is a liar.

                          Check this article:
                          http://www.usjujitsu.net/forms/ethics.pdf

                          Check these two diferent websites:

                          http://www.minds.nuim.ie/~selfdefence/boards/viewtopic.php?p=2376

                          http://www.webbsma.com/news_march04.html

                          In the first website Kwan_dao might say that someone put it there to badmouth ou incriminate this great shihan.
                          But the second is in the webbs page, i dont think that anybody puts articles ther without verification.Check that out before that is taken offline just like his website on

                          http://jujitsuemportugal.no.sapo.pt/
                          that he took it offline because someone was donwloading pictures that had the date of his belt promotions, one belt per year, and informing martial artists through Europe. One of them, Oliver Gugel even ofended me, because Shihan Nunes is a great Sensei and a friend and can do no wrong. They are both at the same organization.
                          I am such an evil person, sometimes i get tired of badmouthing, maybe i am wrong and i dont belong in the martial arts.

                          To those that have studied Jujitsu, do you notice something weird in this:

                          YouTube - HNFraude

                          I dont want to make a crusade against this person. Sincerely i am very dissapointed with the martial arts world, because its an inglorious task to see someone that betrays the martial way, to be considered a great sensei.
                          I am considered a badmouther.
                          Please dont take my side, as ther is no side to take, just do some research first, before claiming that i am lying with a selfish purpose.
                          Thats what Sensei Nunes answers all the time, those who expose him, are nothing but jealous people, jealous of his sucess.
                          Cheers
                          Last edited by manlobeiro; 3/27/2009 8:19pm, .

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Manlobeiro, I fully understand how you feel. Believe me, I have my own share of "total-idot-wannabe-MA-master" to get angry about.

                            I apologize if what I wrote came about too personal. That was not my intention. I just wanted to make it clear that it will not help anyone (especially not you and your cause) to come forth with accusations as long as you do not have solid proof.

                            It may be harsh, but it might well be that we all have to live with some bullshidokas and MA-bottomfeeders, just because there is not enough substantial proof against them (nothing to nail them).

                            We have to fullfill our burden of proof. If, for whatever reason, we can't do that, we will have to live with the fact that there are idiots (mis-)leading other idiots and those who do not know better.

                            About the techniques you quoted in your vid:

                            Yes, the first one may be extremely low percentage and take a tremendous amount of agility and luck to pull of "t3h real". I also ask myself why he strikes the opponents shoulder and hip in the second one. But do we know the full context? Is this sufficient to call him fraud? I don't know the full video, so I dare not judge...

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by kwan_dao View Post
                              Manlobeiro, I fully understand how you feel. Believe me, I have my own share of "total-idot-wannabe-MA-master" to get angry about.

                              I apologize if what I wrote came about too personal. That was not my intention. I just wanted to make it clear that it will not help anyone (especially not you and your cause) to come forth with accusations as long as you do not have solid proof.

                              It may be harsh, but it might well be that we all have to live with some bullshidokas and MA-bottomfeeders, just because there is not enough substantial proof against them (nothing to nail them).

                              We have to fullfill our burden of proof. If, for whatever reason, we can't do that, we will have to live with the fact that there are idiots (mis-)leading other idiots and those who do not know better.

                              About the techniques you quoted in your vid:

                              Yes, the first one may be extremely low percentage and take a tremendous amount of agility and luck to pull of "t3h real". I also ask myself why he strikes the opponents shoulder and hip in the second one. But do we know the full context? Is this sufficient to call him fraud? I don't know the full video, so I dare not judge...
                              No need to apologize, i understand the situation and i know that i have not much to do , just to make fun and alert about this poser.
                              I have lost all my patience with him and his followers, the try to clean his image on the internet, he assumes fake identities so that he can speak well of himself. Thats why sometimes i just cant stand someone 'defending' him. I also must live with the fact that theres is no neutral central government in my country that sets standarts and criteria for martial arts instructors.
                              About the video, that was made with very very very close orientation by Soke Morris, thera are a few flaws in my opinion. The Shihan movements seem smooth because the only technical skill in his game is Judo, a poor Judo but nevertheless you can see that is a little bit superior to his poorest Jujitsu skills.
                              The samurai had a relatively heavy armour. Not as heavy as the armour of the Knights, but heavy enough to make it difficult to stand up, once on the ground.
                              In all the styles of Jujitsu i have seen, koryu or gendai, i never saw a jump like that, probably impossible with an armour. Is that modern goshin Jujitsu?
                              Jujitsu is practiced from 8 years old to 80 years old, i cant imagine older people pulling that stunt.
                              The two atemi, one on the shoulder , one on the hip, are probably simulations of atemi on the face and on the groin. I yet have not lost my care for 40 dolars so that i could buy this gentleman dvd, because i would laught a bit, not because i think im superior to anyone, but because even with the orientation of a great Sensei like Morris, Shihan Nunes shows by his movements, kamai, that he is just a poser and has no perception why the techniques are the way they are.
                              By the way, as i am portuguese, i know these stories, Portugal is a small country, Shihan Nunes didnt know how to kick. Once he had a girl friend that teached him how to kick, she had been a Karate champion. But he still doesnt know how to punch.
                              Observe his locks, observe the position of the hands, in my opinion, he makes to much strength that shows lack of technical knowledge.
                              But that would take too much time to discuss.
                              I for sure would like that Shihan Nunes himself woul be here to answer this questions.

                              I think the fact he copies an american Jujitsu Federation about ethics in the martial arts, and claims the article is made by himself, and that his Jujitsu is a little bit strange and not effective, might help if not to call him a fraud, but to be more critical to this poser.
                              My opinion is that he is a fraud, might not be your opinion, but at least have a critical mind, its all i ask to you and others.
                              In Portugal we have another gentleman with 30 or so years who is 10th Dan. :)
                              But at least this wizz kid practiced Judo a little bit and shotokan. Now he makes shotokan kata with a sword in his hand and call it jujitsu. :)
                              Its an original fellow, Shihan Nunes is not original, he needs his Soke guidance :D

                              Cheers
                              Last edited by manlobeiro; 3/29/2009 6:13am, .

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Manlobeiro:
                                I too do no say you are lying about this. But I have studied with Helder.
                                While I can speak for his Judo, he does have good Jiu Jitsu under the Juko Shiin Ryu system. i watched the video as well. yes, there are some "Hollywood" styles there (to make himself look good I would say). But there are also some legitimate techniques that you didn't focus on either.
                                I will not defend him since I have not seen the diplomas and you do have some great evidence against him.
                                But I can not say he is guilty as well since I have seen nothing else.
                                I will talk to Soke Cheek and Master Gugel as I have studied with him and his father many years back. I am sure that he will get his in the end my friend.
                                Try not to let it ruin your training and outlook on martial arts.

                                Comment

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