Gene Simco Controversy: the pending court case

[glambman]

I just want to say that it's worth noting since we've had a confirmed court date, those coming to Simco's defense have seemed to disappeared from the thread.

I wasn't defending him, but I will say that a court confirmation date could imply any charge. I know that it looks bad (especially when the CotC is reluctant to say anything), but I would like to see what he is actually charged with, instead of relying on conjure and hyperbole.

BTW, I sent the newsroom at the PoJo an email, and they haven't responded. It was almost verbatim of another members 'banned' comment (no relation, I swear). lol I won't hold my breathe.

[Gabetuno]

I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone glambman, I was just noting that we had a stream of defenders at first and they seem to have disappeared since talk of a court date. I too want to see what he is charged with. I am honestly very curious as to his sway with this newspaper, as they seem to be going to extraordinary lengths to squelch inquiry.

[glambman]

I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone glambman, I was just noting that we had a stream of defenders at first and they seem to have disappeared since talk of a court date. I too want to see what he is charged with. I am honestly very curious as to his sway with this newspaper, as they seem to be going to extraordinary lengths to squelch inquiry.

I know you weren't pointing fingers, I meant to imply that I don't want to condemn a man without factual data, as I said earlier in this thread. That's all.

The newspaper, PoJo ran several stories about Simco, going back to 2002, and also earlier this year. They plugged his book, and it appears that they had a common nonprofit affiliation.

[Jonathan Randal]

I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone glambman, I was just noting that we had a stream of defenders at first and they seem to have disappeared since talk of a court date. I too want to see what he is charged with. I am honestly very curious as to his sway with this newspaper, as they seem to be going to extraordinary lengths to squelch inquiry.

I am completely unapologetic about defending Simco's right (or anyone elses, for that matter) to be given the benefit of the doubt until confirmation is available. Now that there appears to be confirmation, there is no further reason to defend such a right in this case. You don't have to like or respect someone as a martial artist (or person) to require serious and inflammatory accusations be documented before being taken seriously as truth. My personal turning point (upthread) was after weeks of Internet rumors and accusations, seeing that, despite recent edits to his MySpace page, Mr. Simco never issued a denial of any type there or anywhere else. This, in and of itself, didn't convince me (I need an actual court appearance, date or arrest confirmation), but it did raise serious questions in my mind.

Special thanks to Sam Browning for his research and even -handed method of dealing with this issue.

[Gabetuno]

I think most people gave Simco the benefit of the doubt. The vast majority of the posters disregarded any comments about his BJJ history and went to lengths checking people's background to see if they were affiliated with a rival school. Everyone deserves to be innocent until proven guilty, and Simco as of today (in my eyes) is innocent, but that's no reason to ignore the mounting truth that he has been arrested for something, and a certain group of people don't want it publicized. He may indeed be innocent of it, but he sure is handling things poorly if he is.

[Jonathan Randal]

I think most people gave Simco the benefit of the doubt. The vast majority of the posters disregarded any comments about his BJJ history and went to lengths checking people's background to see if they were affiliated with a rival school. Everyone deserves to be innocent until proven guilty, and Simco as of today (in my eyes) is innocent, but that's no reason to ignore the mounting truth that he has been arrested for something, and a certain group of people don't want it publicized. He may indeed be innocent of it, but he sure is handling things poorly if he is.

Agreed.

[DanielABravo]

Balance to the Issue at Hand - Simco

Good morning all,

Busy week I see on this forum and topic. Well, I couldn't stand by any longer. I'm jumping back in, at least for a while and until the outcome of this thing is known. Not like there aren't better things to do every day, but this issue that affects all of us is obviously heating up again and requires some balance. So here we go -- why, even if the arrest is true, which it may be, do so many people, but especially Steve, Kardian, and specific others want it printed in the PoJo so badly?

Regardless of whether you like him or not, know him or not isn't a story, or even the point of this thread. But one good point is that press about this story is bad for everyone and all the way around for martial arts (in all disciplines) overall, especially until we have an actual conviction. So, shouldn't we be hoping that it's not true?

Why can't you wait until the legal system finishes THEIR job (those directly involved and immediately involved in the apparent case), and AGAIN innocent until proven guilty? Lynch mob justice is not the American or the BJJ/MAA/TKD, etc. way. Why not wait for a conviction? Again SamboSteve and others, why so eager to get it published?

It seems as though there are more people working for Kardian and the Migliarese association than the legal system and community first believed, and unfortunately they doesn't care how their smear campaign affects the image of martial arts in general/overall.

As it is MMA isn't legal in all states (if you didn't know) because they think it's brutal, won't this paint an even worse picture of our world and the "potential we DO have to offer, next generation we should be teaching?" If these charges turn out to be falsified in an attempt to defame Simco, then you have now helped spread a lie and given people who don't like MMA just one more reason not to like it.

Now, I can see if he (or anyone) had already been convicted of something, but if he was just arrested (which is apparently what you are saying), and of what looks like a misdemeanor from what people are saying here too, what's the rush?

So, it begs the first question Steve, why would you want to make sure that it gets printed in the paper, and what the hell is the rush? Haste makes mistakes (and waste).
I then ask you Steve, are you working with or for Phil and Steve Kardian...or others?

It's not like Simco is famous like Eddie Bravo, Chuck Liddell out here, or even more famous people who have seriously influenced martial arts such as Chuck Norris (who had his own Dojo in So Cal. at one point years ago), Bruce or Brandon Lee, Chow Yun-Fat, or Jackie Chan, or the whole list of "B Rated" actors that entertain us ( Michael Dudikoff, Mark Dacascos, Cynthia Rothrock, Jeff Speakman, etc., etc.). It's Gene Simco from upstate New York for crying out loud! Who freaking cares? If he wasn't a celeb before, you're sure helping make him one now!!! I bet his sales have tripled from this crap! Remember the rule -- at least out here anyway, NO PRESS IS BAD PRESS.

If not, why would you try to help them spread this allegation or anything until an actual conviction is secured? Wouldn't that "over publicize any legitimate case and jeopardize it, even if there is something to it? Why would you do this...especially after Kardian DELETED your post defending Gene Simco on the YouTube video site around Sept. 7 or 8? How wrong and biased is that, speaking of SUBTERFUGE?

These specific people (or group) seem to leave all the negative posts about Simco, but when someone else goes on those sites or forums placing their posts and speaking either neutrally or defending Gene, their posts are deleted (just like yours was -- and mine)...hmmmm even yours Steve! Answer that question - why did Kardian delete your post defending Simco?

For the record again, I am no one's spokesperson. However, what I am is a person that firmly believes in my right to free speech, and numerous other freedoms we still enjoy in our country. Why do I care about this case? Here you go...many, many years ago I was falsely accused of something very similar and had the police TRY to bring me in. I know that I was INNOCENT (it was me that was accused after all!), but a ruthless woman and a few innocent bystanders with viscous ulterior motives was bound and determined to find a way to destroy me both personally and professionally out of jealousy, etc.

Just the accusation was enough in those days to cast serious doubt and literally destroy entire lives and families; thank God that's no longer the case. I refuse, having walked in what seem to be very similar shoes. that I personally KNOW to be innocent ones, but the over-eager, untrained police were still bound and determined to charge me with "erroneously" (they tried to entrap me). From that day forward, I swore to keep a very open mind until all possible is known. Thank God for great lawyers, not living in a communist/socialist/dictator state, and having the right to be considered "innocent until proven guilty" despite what anyone else THINKS!!!

Bravo



REPLY TO POSTS ----------

"...I don't feel like finding all of the quotes. Basically, we have a paper editing/deleting posts, we have LEOs that have been allegedly hiding information on Simco, nothing on the Millbrook website says court isn't held this past Tuesday, and a few people have said that it is outright being hidden on purpose on other websites.

So, really, with all the subterfuge and different responses from the court itself, you have to go. --Cai Longyun"

"...pojo has a blurb printed that syas they dont print names of people if it is a misdemeanor. and when you look at the charges posted way back when on one of these pages or forums, somenoe says that these crimes are misdemeanor, not felony. so i dont know if thats why they might not be printing it and deleting posts bout it, but i was told that they probably wouldnt even if they had the info because of the level crime it is....bhbjj"

"POJO hase names and "crimes" of people listed all over their forum. This one just rubs them the wrong way for some reason...Steve Sambo"

[DanielABravo]

As I've said before, he is probably doing EXACTLY what an attorney is telling him to do...that's what my lawyer would tell me to do, and it's what I would tell my clients to do. Keep your mouth shut, lay low, etc., etc. Can you imagine how difficult that would be for someone like Simco? He's a fighter, which is proven. It must be all he can do to keep his mouth shut and not respond. It'd be killing me (but I'd still do what my attorney told me to do, no matter what!).
Bravo

[Gabetuno]

Your argument is so poorly thought out it barely deserves replying to. I will say this though, the nonsense about "THINK OF THE COMMUNITY, GUIZ!" as a counter to seeking truth is ridiculous. People looked in the newspaper because newspapers publish arrests. Look in any newspaper anywhere. Not just convictions, arrests. Do you know why that is? Because when the police arrest someone, they (most of the time) have cause. It means their job if they just snatch up any guy off the street. That's why people are confused about it not being published.

Other than that, your post is full of biased drool. If you read anything on this site at all, you will see that everyone has been giving Simco the benefit of the doubt, and probably gone to UNUSUALLY great lengths to verify that this wasn't some kind of slander. Until then, you notice that the title of the thread still has the words "Smear Campaign" in it. Please read more carefully and try not to be a jackass.

[It is Fake]

Good morning all,

Busy week I see on this forum and topic. Well, I couldn't stand by any longer. I'm jumping back in, at least for a while and until the outcome of this thing is known. Not like there aren't better things to do every day, but this issue that affects all of us is obviously heating up again and requires some balance. So here we go -- why, even if the arrest is true, which it may be, do so many people, but especially Steve, Kardian, and specific others want it printed in the PoJo so badly?

Regardless of whether you like him or not, know him or not isn't a story, or even the point of this thread. But one good point is that press about this story is bad for everyone and all the way around for martial arts (in all disciplines) overall, especially until we have an actual conviction. So, shouldn't we be hoping that it's not true?

Why can't you wait until the legal system finishes THEIR job (those directly involved and immediately involved in the apparent case), and AGAIN innocent until proven guilty? Lynch mob justice is not the American or the BJJ/MAA/TKD, etc. way. Why not wait for a conviction? Again SamboSteve and others, why so eager to get it published?

It seems as though there are more people working for Kardian and the Migliarese association than the legal system and community first believed, and unfortunately they doesn't care how their smear campaign affects the image of martial arts in general/overall.

As it is MMA isn't legal in all states (if you didn't know) because they think it's brutal, won't this paint an even worse picture of our world and the "potential we DO have to offer, next generation we should be teaching?" If these charges turn out to be falsified in an attempt to defame Simco, then you have now helped spread a lie and given people who don't like MMA just one more reason not to like it.

Now, I can see if he (or anyone) had already been convicted of something, but if he was just arrested (which is apparently what you are saying), and of what looks like a misdemeanor from what people are saying here too, what's the rush?

So, it begs the first question Steve, why would you want to make sure that it gets printed in the paper, and what the hell is the rush? Haste makes mistakes (and waste).
I then ask you Steve, are you working with or for Phil and Steve Kardian...or others?

It's not like Simco is famous like Eddie Bravo, Chuck Liddell out here, or even more famous people who have seriously influenced martial arts such as Chuck Norris (who had his own Dojo in So Cal. at one point years ago), Bruce or Brandon Lee, Chow Yun-Fat, or Jackie Chan, or the whole list of "B Rated" actors that entertain us ( Michael Dudikoff, Mark Dacascos, Cynthia Rothrock, Jeff Speakman, etc., etc.). It's Gene Simco from upstate New York for crying out loud! Who freaking cares? If he wasn't a celeb before, you're sure helping make him one now!!! I bet his sales have tripled from this crap! Remember the rule -- at least out here anyway, NO PRESS IS BAD PRESS.

If not, why would you try to help them spread this allegation or anything until an actual conviction is secured? Wouldn't that "over publicize any legitimate case and jeopardize it, even if there is something to it? Why would you do this...especially after Kardian DELETED your post defending Gene Simco on the YouTube video site around Sept. 7 or 8? How wrong and biased is that, speaking of SUBTERFUGE?

These specific people (or group) seem to leave all the negative posts about Simco, but when someone else goes on those sites or forums placing their posts and speaking either neutrally or defending Gene, their posts are deleted (just like yours was -- and mine)...hmmmm even yours Steve! Answer that question - why did Kardian delete your post defending Simco?

For the record again, I am no one's spokesperson. However, what I am is a person that firmly believes in my right to free speech, and numerous other freedoms we still enjoy in our country. Why do I care about this case? Here you go...many, many years ago I was falsely accused of something very similar and had the police TRY to bring me in. I know that I was INNOCENT (it was me that was accused after all!), but a ruthless woman and a few innocent bystanders with viscous ulterior motives was bound and determined to find a way to destroy me both personally and professionally out of jealousy, etc.

Just the accusation was enough in those days to cast serious doubt and literally destroy entire lives and families; thank God that's no longer the case. I refuse, having walked in what seem to be very similar shoes. that I personally KNOW to be innocent ones, but the over-eager, untrained police were still bound and determined to charge me with "erroneously" (they tried to entrap me). From that day forward, I swore to keep a very open mind until all possible is known. Thank God for great lawyers, not living in a communist/socialist/dictator state, and having the right to be considered "innocent until proven guilty" despite what anyone else THINKS!!!

Bravo



REPLY TO POSTS ----------

"...I don't feel like finding all of the quotes. Basically, we have a paper editing/deleting posts, we have LEOs that have been allegedly hiding information on Simco, nothing on the Millbrook website says court isn't held this past Tuesday, and a few people have said that it is outright being hidden on purpose on other websites.

So, really, with all the subterfuge and different responses from the court itself, you have to go. --Cai Longyun"

"...pojo has a blurb printed that syas they dont print names of people if it is a misdemeanor. and when you look at the charges posted way back when on one of these pages or forums, somenoe says that these crimes are misdemeanor, not felony. so i dont know if thats why they might not be printing it and deleting posts bout it, but i was told that they probably wouldnt even if they had the info because of the level crime it is....bhbjj"

"POJO hase names and "crimes" of people listed all over their forum. This one just rubs them the wrong way for some reason...Steve Sambo"

So, you are replying to my post telling people why they went to court? Here a quick education since you seem to be an sycophant.


If weird things happen, you check them out. See how easy that was?

Pojo has accusations all over their forum but, in this specific instance, they delete posts and send warnings.
Hmmmm...??

People have said that Simco has people in the PD department.
Hmmmm...??

The court admits, they don't release certain arrest/documents when pertaining to minors.
Hmmmm...??

We have multiple sources saying yes it happened no it didn't.
Hmmmm...??

We have a moving court date.
Hmmmm...??

So, to put those poorly quoted statements (cai is not my name please learn how to read a forum) in context, these are the reasons Sam and 1point2 went to the court house.

Don't try to make it anymore than what it was.

[Sam Browning]

Once someone is arrested, in an American Court, it becomes a public matter. Phil made a public accusation, Simco avoided my requests for a comment. Now I am going to find out what Simco was charged with. Applying your logic we should only discuss criminal cases after a conviction has been secured. That would mean that reporters shouldn't even write stories while a trial is going on.

I reject your description that this is a "smear". Please tell Gene to have his lawyer, issue a statement and we will print it here.

[sambosteve]

I am off to teach, but I wanted to take a moment to answer Danial ABravo since he directed questions specifically to me.

Simply put, I first checked the PoJo when this came out as it is generally routine to print police blotters for arrests, etc. I did not necesarily need an article. As Sam has stated...arrests are public. When I found none, I came to the PoJo forum which had no info on it. And if you read the thread, you will see that grew into another line of inquiry. But, to clarify...I think the paper should be investigating it, not publishing any articles yet. It is too premature for that.

Regarding hoping it is not true, Like everyone here, I hope it is not true. I would rather learn that there is no victim in such a horrible type of thing (whatever the alleged charge may be). If it turns out to be all BS...believe me, I will be all over that too.

Regarding working for Phil or Kardian? Please...I never met Phil to my knowledge (though I may have seen him at some tournaments). I do know Kardian a bit as Mike Wacker has fought in some of my shows. But, I don't really "know" him. The only time we ever met was at the Battle of Brooklyn over a year ago. In fact, I did not even know he was a cop until this thread informed me of that.

So, to clearly state, no I am not working for them...especially not if you are suggesting that I am part of some kind of smear campaign with them. which I take offense to greatly. I have been the victim of a smear campaign (not regarding charges like this) and it was no joy ride. To suggest I am part of it is rediculous and insulting.

[It is Fake]

MABS Runoff: Simco - No BS Martial Arts

*Edit*

We were arguing what a paper should or shouldn't do so, it was all moved. Relax, it is only one more week.

[Sam Browning]

I talked to one of the Journal's editors today, a Mr. Ferro and he referred me to this enunciation of their guidelines.

"How we handle misdemeanor arrests
Posted 9/25/2008 12:12 PM EDT on poughkeepsiejournal.com
How we handle the reporting of misdemeanor arrests gets lots of questions and comments. Frequently, we are asked to explain what our "policy" is. I put policy in quote marks because it's not so much a policy, as a guideline.

The Journal typically does not print the names of people charged with misdemeanors, but frequently does make exceptions if the person is (or was) in a position of authority. These include, but are not limited to, police officers, judges, firefighters, elected officials or, in this case, doctors.

The Journal also makes exceptions if the incident was high-profile or rises to a certain level in terms of public awareness.

I know this second condition sounds vague, and it is. It's not an exact science. I recall that we once printed the name of a person charged with taking a bulldozer and plowing up a street in Red Hook in a fit of rage. It seemed to us that the incident had enough of an impact that it warranted this next level of scrutiny.

We typically do not print the names of those charged with misdemeanors simply because we do not have enough reporters to follow every such case through the town courts, at which misdemeanors are typically adjudicated. We do strive to have a reporter at county court virtually every day. This way, we are able to track the outcome of felony charges.

By not printing the names, we avoid the dilemma of having a suspect "convicted in the court of public opinion" and then never having the same opportunity to clear their names if the charges are dropped or dismissed. When we do print the names of people charged with misdemeanors, we make every attempt to follow the case through town court.

Again, it's not an exact science. But it's based on a principle of fairness."

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/a...siejournal.com

[Sam Browning]

Mr. Ferro then referred me to this explaination concerning why certain posts had been taken down.

"We appreciate the information you've provided to us and are in the process
of investigating the allegations raised. As soon as the questions we've
asked of authorities have been answered we will follow up with a report.

As for our policy concerning deleted posts, we remove any posts that violate
our Terms of Service. Posts are also automatically removed once a certain
abuse report threshold has been reached. All abuse reports are reviewed by
editors and either action is taken or the posts are reinstated.

Replying to:

WOW! Some of the old posts are back! I won't mention the person's name (so this won't get deleted), but the paper should be covering the court next week. But, since the court felt free to confirm the name of the person charged and his date in court, I saw no reason to leave it out. It is public information.

From:

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/a...siejournal.com
Posted by outwithit"