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shironinja gets TOLD on the XMA forum

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  • Boyd
    replied
    Xtreme Martial Arts (whaling on an electric guitar while snowboarding down an avalanche here, folks) are great for people if you want to take the martial arts and systematically remove EVERYTHING cool from them, but for those of us who don't wear helmets to bed this is the worst thing for karate since Ralph Macchio.

    It's honorable that they make no secret of the performance art roots of the style; that's good, because if self-defense was brought up at any time....wait, hold on. In the middle of typing I found this:

    How do you feel about instructors who have very little full contact training? Do you think just knowing technique alone will carry you through a real self-defense situation, or do you need full-contact sparring?
    As a traditional Okinawan Shorei-Ryu stylist, I am a firm believer in practical self-defense application of technique or what we call "Bunkai". Does one have to engage in regular full contact training? Although I have never done full contact sparring, we train self defense techniques in our style close to full contact but in a controlled setting. I believe in today's world, a well rounded instructor would be well versed in different types of sparring applications, street self-defense, ground fighting, etc. to prepare for a wide range of street situations. Thanks

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  • Phrost
    replied
    It's totally about the name. These guys are about as extreme as ballet; while their feats may be impressive in front of crowds, the skills don't transfer very well into the practical realm.

    IMNSFHO, this is the wrong direction for MA to be moving in. All it'll take is the government supporting these guys, ala Wushu, and I'll be seriously concerned. A people that has forgotten its fists will accept tyrany much easier than one whos citizens could fight if need be.

    This is exactly why the various forms of the Chinese government through the centuries have all tried to stamp out martial arts; with the latest tactic being dumbing them down into useless gymnastics and choreography. The Chinese party line is that "Citizens do not fight Citizens", but this translates to "Citizens do not fight their government".

    And although it may very well be a bit alarmist to be drawing such a conclusion at this early stage in the game, I'd caution everyone to consider the ramifications of a society that is morally, and physically unarmed as opposed to one whos citizenry are more like the rugged individuals that founded the United States.

    The XMA may be something great to get your kids into, or to keep people off the couch. But the problem, as with all other so-called martial arts that are 99% show, is that they are dishonestly marketed as being effective for self defense.

    And this one seems to be going out of its way to present itself as the supreme form of fight training. It is ethically disgusting if you ask me.

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  • Benjamin
    replied
    the reason this may be pissing alot of people off is because now there are going to be cheese dicks coming up people that they know do a martial art, and saying dumb things based on what they saw of this show. "hey you do MA right? yeah i saw that XMA show i would beat the shit out off you if you tried htat shit on me..." et fucken cetera

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  • Dochter
    replied
    Originally posted by miguksaram
    Just out of curiosity, if they would have never labled this XMA and labeled it XOF Xtreme Open Forms. Would this even be a topic? The only difference that is going on now that hasn't been done before, is that Mike packaged what was already being done and made it marketable. Forms like these in tournaments have been going on for years.
    If it had been labeled XOF it would have been marketed as different than a "new breed of martial arts". What has been done is already marketable enough, that is why there is a focus on routine performance rather than defence efficacy in many places, it seems like simply another mcdojo enterprise, complete with flashy outfits. The McDojo posted awhile back with the DBZ paintings also demonstrated that its nothing new as well.

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  • Miguksaram
    replied
    Just out of curiosity, if they would have never labled this XMA and labeled it XOF Xtreme Open Forms. Would this even be a topic? The only difference that is going on now that hasn't been done before, is that Mike packaged what was already being done and made it marketable. Forms like these in tournaments have been going on for years.

    When I have children, if they choose to do martial arts they will be free to do what they want. My advice will be that whatever they do will have a fair bit of contact (when they are of an age to handle it).
    I agree with you. I have 2 kids right now and they are active in the sparring classes (No, they are not MT or boxing classes) which has contact light to heavy depending on your rank and age.

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  • Dochter
    replied
    The removal of martial from "martial arts" isn't a good thing, ever.

    Form over substance is also certainly dilution.


    When I have children, if they choose to do martial arts they will be free to do what they want. My advice will be that whatever they do will have a fair bit of contact (when they are of an age to handle it). There are kid classes at both a local mma school and a local bjj school if I'm still in the area. When they are in high school I would hope they consider wrestling (I wasted my time with swimming and water polo:().
    In all reality they may not give two shits about martial arts, which would be fine as well.

    This last bit is for your reasons validating xma.

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  • Miguksaram
    replied
    Originally posted by Dochter
    Wow, talk about cognative dissonance. From a mod even.
    First of all do not use fancy words like that. They confuse me and hurt my brain. :p

    Being a Mod doesn't mean I have to go with the flow of the room. It is obvious that none of the other mods and admins agree with me on this. That is fine. Shit if we all agreed on every little issue, this would be a boring room.

    Also my actions and my thoughts are one in the same. I see no harm in all of this as it will bring in more buisness in the youth. Will people exploit it? Yes they will. People exploit everything in the martial arts. It will always be a buyer beware market.

    I just hope that the people I disagree with do not look at it as a personal attack or questioning of their abilities (accept for Boyd who is just a dumbass). I just hold a different view.
    Last edited by Miguksaram; 12/04/2003 11:35am, .

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  • Deadpan Scientist
    replied
    Dochter: yup.

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  • Dochter
    replied
    Wow, talk about cognative dissonance. From a mod even.

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  • The Wastrel
    replied
    Doesn't UFC, Pride, K1 and all those others do the same thing? Is the general population supposed to think that all martial arts are is a bunch of guys just rolling around beating the shit out of each other? (BTW...this is not a shot at the MMA's, I respect them, I am just trying to make a point)Would you send your kid to a martial art school if you thought all he was going to do was get beat up or learn to beat people up?
    "Martial Arts"

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  • Miguksaram
    replied
    Originally posted by greese1
    Jeremy, you seem like a nice dude, but your friendship with these guys is blinding you. That shit is crap. They talked like they were fighters and spewed more bullshit than any program I have ever seen. I don't care how long they spend sparing, if it looks anything like it did in that program than it is bullshit!
    Alright people, I stayed up late to watch this shit (yes I recorded it). I tried this to watch as if I didn't know them at all. With that in mind I see the points that many of you are making and without prior knowledge to them outside of this show I would agree. I am coming into this thing knowing the people involved (Actually I do not know Mike or Matt outside of the small amount of time that I have spent with them. So I can only say that I know their personality and a small amount of their training. I do know Craig and of course Master Sharkey quite well as I see them almost everyday). I come into this whole debate knowing the participants outside of the 2 hour special. Does that blur my vision on the whole thing? Perhaps. However, in that same sense, it would leave most of you partially blind as all you know is what you have seen on the TV. So we each are making our judgement based on our exposure.

    FYI...I talked to Mst. Sharkey last night about this special. Originally this was supposed to be a documentary on Matt rising from the streets to this competitor. Basically it was supposed to show the positive influence that the martial arts have on kids. Then they got the backing of The Last Samurai and those people wanted to take the show into a different direction all together. So they decided to tie in the whole biomechs, with the documentary, cutting off all but the "competition comeback" section of the documentary. So that is your end result.


    If you can not see how that is bad for the martial arts, I question your vision. It says to everyone "THIS IS WHAT MARTIAL ARTS ARE SUPPOSE TO LOOK LIKE!"
    Doesn't UFC, Pride, K1 and all those others do the same thing? Is the general population supposed to think that all martial arts are is a bunch of guys just rolling around beating the shit out of each other? (BTW...this is not a shot at the MMA's, I respect them, I am just trying to make a point)Would you send your kid to a martial art school if you thought all he was going to do was get beat up or learn to beat people up? Do you think your kid would even want to go? (Now don't say that they would learn more than that because you are basing a decision soley on what you are seeing on tv not all the facts involved)

    I think you are saying all nice because you want a school that has XMA so you are going to ass kiss them because you are afraid if you say something bad it will come back to them.
    As much as I would love to be an ass kisser and have an easy martial art life, that is not in my blood. If was worried about any of this getting back to them, why would I even bother posting in the first place? That doesn't make sense now does it?

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  • Greese
    replied
    Shit, if he could make me 2-3 times stronger and faster I would sign up...
    We need Djimbe doing that shit...then he could do 2200-3300lbs.

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  • Feel the Burn
    replied
    From FAQ:

    "If you are 2-3 times stronger, faster, have quicker reaction time, are more alert and have increased confidence and self esteem from training 4-5 hours a day 6 days a week, I believe it would tremendously benefit everyone."


    I was just reading through their site and found this. I must say that Sensei Mike is indeed correct!! If my strength and speed were multiplied three-fold, I would tremendously benefit!! My self esteem would skyrocket as my 40 yard dash time plummetted to inhuman levels and my bench press max rose past the world record. This man is indeed wise.

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  • udo
    replied
    Martial Arts inherently involve fighting. You can't seperate the two, especially in the minds of the uneducated whose only MA experience is from movies where the flashy crap is used and supposedly works.

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  • Deadpan Scientist
    replied
    Originally posted by miguksaram
    Sharkey's holds 1.5 hour sparring classes 3 times a week, sometimes longer on the weekend. This has been going on for as long as I have trained there.
    Sparring like I saw on that show? You really need to get out more. This is embarassing.

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