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Alright maybe this is BS

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    Alright maybe this is BS

    I wish Phrost could arrange for Erle Montaigue to come on this board and talk about some of the issues concerning what he teaches. I have found him to be quit open, but I know he wouldn't want to come on and just get FLAMED.... I also know most think he is just a MCdojo... but wouldn't it be at least a little interesting to see WHY he believes what he believes? To post legitimate questions in an open forum? I know I am obssessed with Erle, but aren't we all about trying to find out truth!!! Just a thought..... I know we don't need another ShovelaShovel thread or Matt Thornton thread... But what if the guy REALLY knows something.... OK I'll drop it..Sorry.

    #2
    Having just taken the time (my head really hurts, now) to actually go back and read the whole initial "Matt Thornton" thread and the subsequent follow-up after the visit (damn, I would have signed up for the Lancaster seminar if I'd know about it earlier), my assessment is that the whole notion of calling people that train professional fighters or teach seminars professionally "idiots" and decrying systems and people as automatically "fraudulent" is not the way to go. On one hand the freedoms of an unmoderated forum allow for such discourse, but then there's a responsibility that goes with that, too. I don't hide where I'm from, what arts I practice and I stand behind what I post on this board. I also try not to make inflammatory comments and tend to favor civil discussions over some of the "X style/art/training system roooolz" vs. "STFU" style debates that can happen from time to time.

    Those groups that are more guilty of Bullshido practices, I find, tend to either shroud themselves in mysticism or cult-like secrecies and do not make themselves available to public inquiry or readilly admit that what they do is marketting. The McDojos, on the other hand, are much more accessible and easier targets for denegration, but in reality, if they aren't making fraudulent claims, what's the harm? That's where some of the investigative challenge lies in terms of this site's purpose, IMO, because general witch-hunts can stir up attention, but to what purpose? I'm more interested in, per se, where all the money that's generated by a group like the World Head of Sokeship Founders goes. Who's pockets get lined?

    The term, "follow the money", is popular with law enforcement agencies and other investigative groups. On the surface, the practice of bullshido would seem a simple one to generate profit, but, from knowing people that were mixed up in fraudulent rackets, there's also a more sinister aim of being worshipped and controlling a group of followers that seems to crop up. The advent of MMA has done great things for making people that talk the talk more concerned with being able to walk the walk, but in the end it's about being a certain caliber of athlete and winning competition fights, which isn't an unworthy goal by any means, but confining the study of martial arts to such a narrow focus, IMO, isn't necessarily the best way to go, either.

    Now, having said all that, any person that has a public self in the "martial arts industry" and is willing to put themselves out there for a Q & A, especially on this site, deserves to be met with respect -- this doesn't mean we can't ask challenging questions -- but to initiate such an encounter by labelling what they do as "fraudulent" and calling the individuals in question "idiots" is surely a counter-productive method of interaction.
    Last edited by Budd; 11/26/2003 10:32am, .

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      #3

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        #4
        Mcdojos and Bullshido schools and styles should be outed, bashed, and critiqued. Giving them(the bullshido/McDojo instructors) a separate forum free from criticism isn't a very good idea...

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          #5
          I didn't say "free from criticism." I said that we should not be assholes when we critique them in this forum.

          Neither did I say that the forum should be restricted to Bullshidokas .

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            #6
            RM... I agree. Look at the Matt Thornton thing. Here was an opportunity to talk with someone about their particular philosophy. We are not saying to buy everything they say... but have the opportunity to dialogue without insults. Thats why I thought of Erle. When I have e-mailed him in the past he was always very responsive. Hell, the few tapes I got from him, one time I told him they were for my birthday, and he sent me extra tapes in the series!!! Free!!! He says he want to promote the true art!!! Nothing else. Maybe I am niave, but I take him at his word for now. I think this idea has merit, and we could open some very good experiences. What is wrong with that!

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              #7
              That sounds like a great idea. I too was distrubed by the start of that Thornton thread. Imagine starting a conversation with someone in person with, "Hey, your an idiot and here's why..."

              IMHO, character development is very important and martial arts should facilitate that. I used to think that MMA didn't focus on character development enough, but I've come to realize that being humbled for real on the mat or in the ring goes a heck of a long way... :)

              I would enjoy an intelligent exchange. I think that we'd all get a lot out of it. It sure beats the childish name calling anyway.

              Ted

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                #8
                Who here wouldn't welcome the opportunity to talk with Bas Rutten (another person who seems very willing to share his philosophy) or Rickson Gracie or the like.

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                  #9
                  Personally, I'm highly suspicious of Erle and his haircut. However, I'd prefer to get the goods straight from him.

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                    #10
                    Erle can be very controversial. I am still wondering why he moved from Australia....

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                      #11
                      I have nothing but great things to say about the man, the style... will, I reserve judgment until being able to SEE if he can do what he preaches.

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                        #12
                        Ronin wouldn't you like to ask legitimate questions? Erle could be the "Frog"....

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                          #13
                          Super. When will you be heading down to Wales?

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                            #14
                            Hmmmm.... I'd like to see someone call Rickson an idiot... lol

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                              #15
                              "Super. When will you be heading down to Wales?"

                              Sam is going in March.... maybe.... My wife wont' let me travel internationally (ugly American and all that)...

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