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**Gabetuno** · 4/21/2008 8:34am,

Given the results of the Tommy DiLallo thread, maybe an email should be sent to him upfront, and he can get first dibs so to speak on responding to these questions. What do you think?

**BudoMonkey** · 4/21/2008 9:32am,

I'm the guy who contacted Tommy, and I live in the delray beach/south florida area so I'll get in touch with this hartmann guy as well. I'm not close enough to just pop in and catch a class, and that may not be necessary, but depending on the results of our inquiries I can stop by his school if/when I have to. Anyone who claims such a fight record shouldn't be too hesitant to back it up. And-does anyone know if its even possible to be awarded a black belt in muay thai?

I trained for years and years in muay thai, and never heard anything about a belt system.

**Gabetuno** · 4/21/2008 9:36am,

True, but he is claiming "Kick/Thai Boxing" there, not Muay Thai, and I think they do award belts in some kinds of American Kickboxing. Also, didn't LiLallo have a similar claim that turned out to be true? I might be remembering wrong

**BudoMonkey** · 4/21/2008 11:08am,

Many different types of organizations grade things many different types of ways, as was the case with Mr. Dilallo, so this is likely something similiar. I am more curious about his professional fight record. If he fought overseas it could make it much more difficult to track.

I have sent him an e-mail , including a link to this article. Let's see if he replies.

**It is Fake** · 4/21/2008 11:20am,

Originally posted by BudoMonkey

I trained for years and years in muay thai, and never heard anything about a belt system.

Certain gyms, in America, have started ranking in MT.

**BudoMonkey** · 4/21/2008 11:51am,

I am aware of what happened. Thank you, move on.

**BudoMonkey** · 4/21/2008 12:46pm,

His response:

>>>>>>>Hi zack,
it is not the knowing who is asking-always the not knowing. I came to Florida 9 years ago and found martial arts school's the put tears in my eyes. Teacher (or they called him self as it) screaming at little kids, teaching punches, etc., you would cry.
I started 1980 with Karate (you can laugh but it was I-Shin already). If you can follow my career you will find a lot of interesting connection. I fought Shodokan, Wadoryu and other no-and semi-contact tournaments. Started in Taekwondo and Kyokushinkai competitions and did Kickboxing and Muay Thai. Europe is very open and very good in it. Organizations like WKA, WKO in Germany have a graduationsystem (Belts) because you need it to train people (Insurance and Business matter). Often people in US have no idea how many international fighter, trainer, etc., visit and train people in Europe. So got an US-Wing Chun master a very bad experience against Wing Tsung (only student to this time) Emin Boztepe. So got a US Black Belt on this kind of No-rules fights in Russia killed, because he don't know. I trained with Andy Hug (K 1/Kyokushinkai), with Hubert Nummerich look up very old UFC fights he was the dude with bold head but a skinny pony-tale. I trained and fought in Poland,Tschechei, Hungry, France, GB and many more. But it doesn't matter, because it is all about to train people - to enjoy it to stay healthy and get fit for your life. We do no competition anymore, because.....
Look at the No rules fights (UFC) -what you see is steroids pumped guys, and by the way: How many rules are this now at UFC 38 or 59? How many organizations like the first one you finally can find now (AFC, UFC, Dogfights and and and)?
I trained Pro Boxer, so you can see my picture in the corner from Alben Belinsky in Munich against Vitali Klitschko. OK he lost, but he got him in the first round on the floor. But it is past time and doesn't matter today.
Guys and Girls coming to me, because they like my training and the nice team. I got students around the world and they visit me a lot. I don't be upset and I am not mad, I like when people look up staff and find out because it is knowledge what matter and not blind follower. Why you don't stop by some times and train with us. It is not the word what is spoken or written what matter, it is the personal experience what will teach you and give us always the chance to find new friends. My life was a very difficult time. Shortly will my book about it be finished and I would like to send you one then. Sorry that my English is not so good, but I'm still learning. Feel free to send me more. I will give my students the discussion web site to be involved, because a lot of them did different martial arts stiles before and believed they went good, but almost nobody left only for reason of moving, because they love it and this matter, or? Have a wonderful day Bernie <<<<<<<

You all are more than welcome to translate.

**It is Fake** · 4/21/2008 12:52pm,

Originally posted by BudoMonkey

I am aware of what happened. Thank you, move on.

Actually I Did, I didn't realize I deleted the wrong post. Fixed.

**wendyful** · 4/21/2008 1:32pm,

I have been training with Shihan Bernie for several years now. He is absolutely astonishing. For most of that time, I have half-joked that he is an alien because of the feats (both physical and mental) of which he is capable. Do not let his imperfect English dissuade you from trying his dojo out. I am without question in the best physical shape of my life due to his training (and I'm well into my 30s).

I've met many of his students who flew over from Germany just to have the honor to train with him for a week or two.

What might deter you is how tough his classes can be. I've seen many people who thought they were hot-shots try one of his classes and feel inferior by the end of it. I've seen those people quit because they weren't tough enough mentally to persevere. If you are serious about learning martial arts and incredible fighting styles and techniques, then look no further for your new teacher. Hope to see you in class soon! :)

**student4lifenyc** · 4/21/2008 1:44pm,

Hello Zack,

I traing with Bernie Hartmann for a years. Presently, I train at THE WAT, here in NYC. Maybe you have heard of it. I have trained at THE WAT for about 1year and half. The workouts I received from Bernie coincide with the ones I recieve today at The Wat. The kicks are different in Muay Thai than the kicks learned from Bernie in I-SHIN and I take what works best for me from any style. The workouts from Former IBF Middle Weight Champ Steve Franks are very similar to those of Bernie Hartman. Great for strength and coordination. I would only wish you could train with Bernie. In South Florida, I found this was the best open school to train at. I did not venture to TOP TEAM in Coconut Creek, but after training with Bernie, I didn't have to or want to train anywhere else. I find that Bernie's combination of being a physical therapist and an expert martial artist help limit gaps in training from injury. If my shoulder was nagging, or my knee, all I would have to do is say something and He could adjust the discomfort in minutes. At The Wat, if I feel something gets out of place I take it easy and I am told to go see a Chiropractor. Take nothing away from The Wat. It has extremely difficult classes. Boxing, Clinch, Muay Thai. The Advanced level classes taught by Phil Nurse who just happens to train GSP for Muay Thai and conditioning really steps up the workouts. You know GSP who just beat Matt Serra? Anyways, in South Florida I always seek to train with my friend, my instructor Bernie Hartmann. I actually prefer the I-Shin Kicks to the Muay Thai Kicks, but this is because I was raised young doing styles from Goju Ryu, MooDukKwon,and American Kenpo. My Kicks changed form when I met Bernie, and they are changing again with Muay Thai. I still prefer the logic and feeling when using Bernie's style kicks. Please take sometime and train with him. Leave your guns at home, he trains law enforcement too. Have a great day. About levels of Advancement in Muay Thai. They wear arm bands with different colors where I train in NYC.

**Teh El Macho** · 4/21/2008 1:56pm,

Spoiler:

Originally posted by wendyful

I have been training with Shihan Bernie for several years now. He is absolutely astonishing. For most of that time, I have half-joked that he is an alien because of the feats (both physical and mental) of which he is capable. Do not let his imperfect English dissuade you from trying his dojo out. I am without question in the best physical shape of my life due to his training (and I'm well into my 30s).

I've met many of his students who flew over from Germany just to have the honor to train with him for a week or two.

What might deter you is how tough his classes can be. I've seen many people who thought they were hot-shots try one of his classes and feel inferior by the end of it. I've seen those people quit because they weren't tough enough mentally to persevere. If you are serious about learning martial arts and incredible fighting styles and techniques, then look no further for your new teacher. Hope to see you in class soon! :)

Originally posted by student4lifenyc

Hello Zack,

I traing with Bernie Hartmann for a years. Presently, I train at THE WAT, here in NYC. Maybe you have heard of it. I have trained at THE WAT for about 1year and half. The workouts I received from Bernie coincide with the ones I recieve today at The Wat. The kicks are different in Muay Thai than the kicks learned from Bernie in I-SHIN and I take what works best for me from any style. The workouts from Former IBF Middle Weight Champ Steve Franks are very similar to those of Bernie Hartman. Great for strength and coordination. I would only wish you could train with Bernie. In South Florida, I found this was the best open school to train at. I did not venture to TOP TEAM in Coconut Creek, but after training with Bernie, I didn't have to or want to train anywhere else. I find that Bernie's combination of being a physical therapist and an expert martial artist help limit gaps in training from injury. If my shoulder was nagging, or my knee, all I would have to do is say something and He could adjust the discomfort in minutes. At The Wat, if I feel something gets out of place I take it easy and I am told to go see a Chiropractor. Take nothing away from The Wat. It has extremely difficult classes. Boxing, Clinch, Muay Thai. The Advanced level classes taught by Phil Nurse who just happens to train GSP for Muay Thai and conditioning really steps up the workouts. You know GSP who just beat Matt Serra? Anyways, in South Florida I always seek to train with my friend, my instructor Bernie Hartmann. I actually prefer the I-Shin Kicks to the Muay Thai Kicks, but this is because I was raised young doing styles from Goju Ryu, MooDukKwon,and American Kenpo. My Kicks changed form when I met Bernie, and they are changing again with Muay Thai. I still prefer the logic and feeling when using Bernie's style kicks. Please take sometime and train with him. Leave your guns at home, he trains law enforcement too. Have a great day. About levels of Advancement in Muay Thai. They wear arm bands with different colors where I train in NYC.

Hi, thanks for your responses.

So, wendyful, you are corrently training with Mr. Hartman in Deerfield Beach, FL? How long have you been training with him?

And student4lifenyc, just to get an idea, how long did you train with Mr. Hartman when you were in Florida? I may be wrong, but I believe there are other posters in this forum who also train (or know about) at WAT. Who knows, maybe some of the guys here know you in person.

**BudoMonkey** · 4/21/2008 1:56pm,

I will come by his school soon.

**wendyful** · 4/21/2008 2:03pm,

Just to clarify, Shihan trains us in Delray Beach.

I'm bad with time, but it's been about 4-5 years I think.

**wingchundo** · 4/21/2008 2:25pm,

I appreciate the responses from students, thank you very much and I'm happy that you are pleased with the instruction.

A few questions:

1) Do you guys spar?

2) Has he ever discussed his fight record in detail, outlining which organizations he fought under?

3) Do you do katas?

4) Has he ever discussed who awarded his various belts?

Again, thank you very much. Please don't think I'm criticizing your sifu, I'm just trying to make sure a colleague isn't getting hosed.

Announcement

Anyone hear of I Shin in South Florida?

Anyone hear of I Shin in South Florida?

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