Another fake BJJ black belt!!

[GDTheTrain]

Hi everyone. I'm new here and usually post on the nhbgear.com forum.

Check these guys out:

www.ammai.org


we are lighting them up with emails and phone calls. Seems their "Brown Belt" John Lindahl is the webmaster and starting a new MMA and BJJ academy. But the so called Black Belt is making all kinds of crap up.

Anyone care to join the cause?

[Omega Supreme]

I was about to ask for the proof...never mind. God they don't even try these days.

[UpaLumpa]

Can you give a link to the NHB thread?

[cyrijl]

On the mat has him listed

http://onthemat.com/belts_database.p...ls&beltid=1159

[GDTheTrain]

http://www.nhbgear.com/forum/index.p...c,80100.0.html

[Omega Supreme]

Oh and this is also bullshit.

http://www.ammai.org/kungfu.html

[GDTheTrain]

On the mat has him listed

http://onthemat.com/belts_database.p...ls&beltid=1159

On The Mat is not a good database. IT is a self service database, so you can go there and put any information you want. You can sign Bruce Lee up and have him listed as a 7th degree black belt in BJJ and it will be listed.

He also listed himself as a Carlson Gracie BB, and the list of all Carlson Gracie BB's was published after his death, and this clown wasn't on there, neither was this guys "instructor"

Check the NHB grea link and you can see other activity around this clown.

[GDTheTrain]

he claims he was training BJJ under a guy named Andrew Bryce, in 1992, and Bryce trained at the Carlson Gracie Academy. Carlson didn't come to the US until 1996 or so.

[Omega Supreme]

Excellent posts on the other thread Train:

John,

I saw your gym's information on the AMMAI website and I wanted to get in touch with someone. I only saw this email and I wasn't sure who else to reach out to. I'm a Brown Belt in BJJ and have been involved in MMA and BJJ for a very long time.

The website says you have a brown belt in BJJ and also TKD. It also shows a head black belt instructor named Matt Elam, who has a black belt in BJJ. Matt Elam seems to have a ton of experience in MMA as his record indicates that he has had close to 200 fights.

However, when looking at the lineage of Carlson Gracie Black Belts, there is no listing for Matt Elam nor Andrew Bryce. I'm just trying to figure out if Matt Elam is legit, or if he is making things up to market to the public. The BJJ community is very small and we take it upon ourselves to maintain the integrity of BJJ. Also, with a record of so many MMA fights, I fiind it difficult to believe that Matt Elam's name isn't listed with any of the record keepers who keep track of MMA competitors.

In what events has Matt Elam competed? When and from whom did Matt receive his blue, purple and brown belts in BJJ?

I apologoze for taking your time, but I'm sure you can understand the nature of my email and the quest to keep and maintain the quality and integrity of BJJ and its rankings.

Thank you,

Greg Davis

[GDTheTrain]

we had a couple of emails exchanged, but he decided to be less responsive because he knows he got busted

[Omega Supreme]

I stopped reading the thread...cut and paste some of those here if you would.

[Valiss]

Can you post any of the replies? It was just getting good!

[EternalRage]

Mr. John is wearing an ATAMA gi with a TKD belt...

What the hell is MMA Status.

Seminars is spelled incorrectly at least twice.

[EternalRage]

Here's the communications between all parties so far (up to page 13 of that thread)

Spoke to john around 8:00 EST. Says the guys legit, Matt's his instructor , says he's up there w/guys like Nick Diaz been doing JJ for 20 some years? Gave him the site info. Might kick all our asses

Mr. Elam called me back, Says he got a black belt from Andrew Bryce, who he thinks got a black belt from Carlson Gracie, but not sure of it. He says he is inactive and has been for some time. He says his fight record is true, but in small shows back in the early 90's. He is a correctional officer and doesnt train anymore. He said he doesnt recall other than the IFFA the names of any shows he fought in, and that he isnt really interested in the sport like he used to be and the pics online were old. He refered me to Mr. Lindal, asking me to call him and for me to feel free to roll with him. I told him who I was and why I was calling him, but he really didnt seem too awfully concerned. I personally dont belive the fight record, I would remember where I fought and names, and If my instructor claimed to be a Gracie black belt, I would be able to provide proof, which he could not. So, without saying he is a liar, I will leave it to you, the general public to decide. I feel bad for people who spend money with instructors who cannot verify there lineage.

John,

I saw your gym's information on the AMMAI website and I wanted to get in touch with someone. I only saw this email and I wasn't sure who else to reach out to. I'm a Brown Belt in BJJ and have been involved in MMA and BJJ for a very long time.

The website says you have a brown belt in BJJ and also TKD. It also shows a head black belt instructor named Matt Elam, who has a black belt in BJJ. Matt Elam seems to have a ton of experience in MMA as his record indicates that he has had close to 200 fights.

However, when looking at the lineage of Carlson Gracie Black Belts, there is no listing for Matt Elam nor Andrew Bryce. I'm just trying to figure out if Matt Elam is legit, or if he is making things up to market to the public. The BJJ community is very small and we take it upon ourselves to maintain the integrity of BJJ. Also, with a record of so many MMA fights, I fiind it difficult to believe that Matt Elam's name isn't listed with any of the record keepers who keep track of MMA competitors.

In what events has Matt Elam competed? When and from whom did Matt receive his blue, purple and brown belts in BJJ?

I apologoze for taking your time, but I'm sure you can understand the nature of my email and the quest to keep and maintain the quality and integrity of BJJ and its rankings.

Thank you,

Greg Davis

"Dear Mr. Greg Davis,

First of all I don't believe I got your last email, I
am sorry, but I don't read emails that look fake and
people that I don't know. Again I am sorry.

His training is true to his sayings, through my
training with him for the past 7 years. If you get to
know Matt, he is a humble, caring, and true person. I
have the upmost respect for the guy, and I will always
stand by his side. If you have a hard time believing
in his fight records, then so be it, that is your
opionion.

Secondly, I don't know who started the whole
"bashing" of our teachings on mma.tv, but it was
childish. I have had people call me and email me for
the past week, and I have not responded. I have better
things to do to talk smack and degrade other people's
teachings and tell them that they are worthless and is
a "MCDOJO", I reassure that we are not that image at
all.
I am 33 years old and I stop playing those games
13 years ago. Matter of fact my ego is about the size
of a pea, I don't I have to prove myself worth to no
one expect for my instructors and me.

Hopefully that will answer whatever questions you
had.


Peace Out,

John"

John,

Thank you for getting back to me. I appreciate the time you took to respond.

I am not questioning anything about Matt Elam's personality nor do I doubt that he is a caring and nice guy. However, I do have issue with his claims to be a Black Belt in BJJ. The person he claims to be a black belt under, Andrew Bryce, is not a Black Belt under Carlson Gracie, as Matt Elam states. I also had a chance to view the pictures of Elam showing techniques and the level of technique is very questionable, especially for a "black belt" in BJJ. Also, the BJJ community is very small, and there is no way a long time BJJ practitioner, especially an American "black belt" would go so low under the radar that nobody has ever heard of him. Especially since he claims to have been training in BJJ before the UFC even started.

I have no ties to the mma.tv forum, but I post on a real BJJ forum (nhbgear.com). The forum is loaded with black belt and brown belts in BJJ, many of whom have been around since the very early stages of BJJ in America, and they are from all over the country.

As for the bashing and emails and people questioning your gym and referring to it as a McDojo.....BJJ is pretty much the last martial art to have a serious set of standards when it comes to belt rankings, and people who spend many years on the mats EARNING their rank take big issue with frauds who claim a rank in BJJ without putting in the work, time and effort. Since there is no regulation for the martial arts, the BJJ community takes it upon themselves to police BJJ in an effort to keep the high standards that we all love about BJJ. So when a TKD instructor goes out and makes claims to be a BJJ black belt, trying to steal money from unsuspecting soccer moms and wanna be tough guys, it is a big issue and people will not let it alone until it is corrected.

As for Matt Elam's so called MMA experience, well there is no way a person could have 22+ professional MMA fights without someone hearing of him. I'm not sure if you are aware, but there are numerous fighter databases that keep records and results. Additionally, myself and many others who post on such BJJ or MMA forums, are very well connected all over the world with promoters, trainers and fighters. So, once again, there is no way that a person with such vast MMA experience would be unknown in any circle. I won't even go into the phony amateur fight claims.

The people who are hurt are guys like you. People who invest their time and money with a fake, but who get sucked in because the phony is a "nice person, caring person, helpful person". Liars are good at what they do, and they sound believable and they typically have a bunch of followers who believe the lies. If you are not a party to Matt Elam's lies, then I suspect that you are a victim. One or the other, so that would mean you are very well aware of the false claims and you are helping spread the lies, or you have no idea and you truly believe what he states (without having proof for yourself). If you are spreading the lies, I'm sure the YMCA will take issue with such a business operating in their facility and I know the calls and emails will continue. So yes, you actually do have to prove your credentials to more than your phony instructor.

If Matt Elam is truly a BJJ Black Belt. Tell me about his lineage, since you failed to answer it in my first email. Who did he get his blue belt, purple belt, brown belt and black belt from? Who has he fought? What promotions?

Thank you,



Greg

From: john lindahl <johnbuffett2001@yahoo.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:03:23 PM
Subject: Re: TN training

Hopefully you had said your peace. By the way who died
and made you the Bjj police. Not to ruffle any
feathers or anything.

I have nothing more to say, because I can go on and
on.

Peace out,

john

By saying my "peace" I'm assuming you meant piece, kind of how you don't know how to spell seminar, unless you created a new martial arts system, kind of like your false ranking in BJJ, called siminars.

And, since you decided to act like a jerk instead of answer perfectly legitimate questions about your ranking and your instructors ranking, it makes it all too clear now how fake you and your group really are. You see, the beautiful thing about BJJ is real practitioners of the art actually take it upon themselves to keep the frauds like you and Matt Elam out of the art and away from the unsuspecting public. You had mentioned the mma.tv forum that referred to your gym as a McDojo, and you said it is childish. Yet for some reason, you don't think it's childish or irresponsible by being dishonest in your business dealings with the public? In essence, you and Matt Elam are stealing from the public by making false claims and charging people to train under false pretenses and lies.

You state you have nothing more to say, and that is blatantly obvious. If you had something to say, some proof of real rank, some trace of evidence that you and Matt Elam are not lying, you would 100% stand up and make it clear that you are in fact honest. Instead, you turn and try to ignore the fact that many people are on to you and I doubt it will be ignored by the many people who care about the art and about honesty.

You see, nobody had to die to make me the BJJ police, there are way too many people who care way too much about BJJ to let a fraud operate in this art. You witnessed first hand on mma.tv and I'm sure many more people will be calling, emailing and doing their best to let the public know what you guys are up to.

It's a shame you guys chose this route, because all the time you spent practices kata's and learning how to lie about your rank could have been much better spent on actually training in BJJ.

Peace out Vanilla Ice

Greg

Dear Mr. Bob Knestrick

The Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu community maintains very, very, strict standards for promotions to instructor level positions. It’s not like Karate. There are not hundreds of qualified instructors. We have no indication that Matt Elam’s credentials as listed on his website are accurate. Others in the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu community have sent repeated emails to them asking that they provide evidence to support their claims and they have refused. There are very few American Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu instructors all of which are well known throughout the community. No one has ever heard of any of your instructors. I ask that you inquire about this issue or I will go ahead and report these guys to various regulatory bodies who do not look kindly upon this sort of thing. I can’t think of anything more irresponsible than offering programs for self-defense which are taught by unqualified instructors.

[Southpaw]

A couple of the instructors are listed as having brown belts after training for 7 years. I'm just curious if that is normal (assuming one isn't training BJ Penn hours...)?