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    "Green Cloud Kung Fu" - Gus Kaparos on Long Island, NY

    I imagine this is an appropriate place to discuss this issue, "Green Cloud Kung Fu" is owned and operated by Gus Kaparos. What gets me about this guy is that he studied with my teacher (late Chan Tai San) and now tries to pass off stuff he makes up as legit CMA he learned!

    Entered into evidence, his own web site http://www.greencloud.net/

    These are direct quotes from the home page

    "The revered master adopted a young American boy and passed down his lineage to the man we now call Sifu Kaparos."

    Gus was in his mid to late 20's when he met Chan Tai San. I've met Gus' parents, he is NOT an orphan. Sifu Chan didn't adopt him and did't raise him, a story ALL of Gus' students tell.

    "the man we now call Sifu Kaparos" ??

    At one point Gus' name wasn't "Kararos"? Is he fleeing criminal charges in another state? Perhaps for fraud?

    "Sifu Kaparos has achieved Master ranking in this system and also holds 10 black belts in other systems of martial arts."

    What arts does he hold black belts in? Who gave him the black belts? What evidence is there that he actually earned these titles?

    We can only verify ONE black belt, a black belt in "Silent Flute" Jiu Jitsu.

    Gus also teaches "stick and knife fighting" which he learned from Kenpo Black Belt Huk Plantas. What he doesn't tell his students is that he studied with Mr Plantas TWO DAYS one weekend.

    "The winner of several national titles and the feature of numerous national publications"

    Gus competed ONCE in all the time I know him. In San Francisco at Tat Mau WOng's. He did not place. In fact, he did a flying kick and lost his blance and landed flat on his back. Mike Parrella (www.NYKungfu.com) can confirm this

    WHat national publications was he in? WHere are copies for us to examine?

    "Sifu Kaparos has been nominated to the Kung-Fu Hall of Fame"

    What hall of fame? Please show us where we can verify this? Is this an organization where if you write the check and attend the banquet you can get in the "hall of fame"?

    "Sifu Kaparos is the head of Green Cloud in the U.S."

    Green Cloud is his school, it only exists in the US.

    Because Gus never learned Chinese, he thought that the monastery that CTS was raised in was called "Green Cloud". It is not called that. Regardless. That monastery is a pile of bricks now.

    More from the web site in question;

    http://www.greencloud.net/969717.html

    Gus claims to teach and to have learned from Chan Tai San the following
    San Shou
    Chin Na
    Pankration
    Nanchuan
    Nok Fei Pai
    Mok Ga

    Chin Na is not a style, it is a skill set within a style, and CTS always insisted so

    Pankration? CTS did NOT teach Gus Pankration...

    On one internet forum, Gus changed his story and said he learned his "Pankration" from his grandfather who was a "champion in Greece". According to the federation in Greece, there was no modern Pankration there until the mid 1980's!!!!

    http://www.greencloud.net/949615.html

    "The name Green Cloud in Chinese is Chin Whan Ji, which means Young Cloud Monastery or sometimes called Lyk Whan Ji."

    The fact that Gus doesn't even know the correct Chinese names for "Green Cloud" is directly related to the fact he never learned to speak CHinese. He is the ONLY disciple of CTS who did not learn ANY Chinese... Of couse, since CTS didn't speak English, this is why Gus learned so little, he could not communicate with CTS in any way...

    "Unlike other martial arts schools, we are just an extension of the Green Cloud Monastery, which is still in Toisan China"

    How are you an extension of a monastery that no longer exists?

    False advertising, and of course, playing into the McDojo image

    I can start here.....

    #2
    Can you provide the Chinese characters for "Green Cloud" ?

    I'll take a look at the website in more detail when I get home. Looks interesting.
    安氏八极拳学生

    Comment


      #3
      Hey lkfmdc,

      Welcome to MABS.

      A couple things so we can help you out. Don't take this in any other way as fact finding. MABS is a little different now and we try to keep it on track.

      Is there anyway you can get/scan anything proving his parents are/were alive?
      Do you know his "original" last name?

      Have you been able to find any Hall Of Fame references any where?

      Chin Na is not a style, it is a skill set within a style, and CTS always insisted so
      Unfortunately, this would be something to leave alone. Thanks to books by Dr. Ming and others it actually has morphed into a style in many peoples minds.

      Yes, I gave up on arguing this because it is so prevalent.

      Some of us know you from other boards. Disclosure and the reason behind this post will go a long way in convincing others to help.

      I know about you and your school so, I know you aren't some random disgruntled student. Others may not so, a little history and why this guy needs to be outed will help.

      Comment


        #4
        Howdy back at you :)

        1. The comment about his last name was pure sarcasm on my part. His real name is Kaparos and he's always been "Gus Kaparos". I was just making fun of his trying to sound "mysterious" with his "the man now known as" wording

        2. Myself, Chris Jurak, Steve Ventura (www.Fit2Fightclub.com), Mike Parrella (www.NYKungfu.com) have all met his parents. On the forum at www.kungfumagazine.com even Gus has admited that he met CTS in his 20's and that his parents are live

        http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...t=49418&page=3

        . Not a big admition considering I was trainign with CTS before Gus arrived and Mike Parrella was the person who introduced Gus to CTS.

        3. As I said, he studied with my teacher (the late Chan Tai San). He claims what he teaches is all pure CTS material. I know for a fact it is not, being a teacher in the same lineage. I was also there when he learned everything he learned. He used to be Mike Parrella's business partner and I helped them open their first school in Mineola LI.

        My point with him is that he's obviously free to teach whatever he wants, but teaching Kenpo, stick fighting, Japanese Jiu Jitsu and Karate and calling it the material he learned from CTS is not honest.

        I will dig up his exact quotes on some of this and post the direct links... there is a lot more to this

        Originally posted by It is Fake
        Hey lkfmdc,

        Welcome to MABS.

        A couple things so we can help you out. Don't take this in any other way as fact finding. MABS is a little different now and we try to keep it on track.

        Is there anyway you can get/scan anything proving his parents are/were alive?
        Do you know his "original" last name?

        Have you been able to find any Hall Of Fame references any where?

        Unfortunately, this would be something to leave alone. Thanks to books by Dr. Ming and others it actually has morphed into a style in many peoples minds.

        Yes, I gave up on arguing this because it is so prevalent.

        Some of us know you from other boards. Disclosure and the reason behind this post will go a long way in convincing others to help.

        I know about you and your school so, I know you aren't some random disgruntled student. Others may not so, a little history and why this guy needs to be outed will help.

        Comment


          #5
          http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...0&postcount=45

          This is Gus Kaparos (Green Cloud) in his own words. Judge for yourself if he is dishonest in what he says

          "I will adress some of your issues, 10 black belts I'm not sure where it sais that on my wb sitehttp://greencloud.net,,,"

          The 10 black belt claim is ON THE FIRST PAGE of his web site!!!!!

          "Wing chun,,, what is it with this style Who ever said anything about Wing Chun"

          http://www.greencloud.net/1120266.html
          that's from his own web page, yet he said on the forum he never teaches any wing chun?

          Bullshido? you decide
          http://www.greencloud.net/2010251.html

          Comment


            #6
            adding more to document all this... these are Gus Kaparos own words on another forum

            http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...&postcount=146

            Here, "Green Cloud" (Gus Kaparos) attempt to "clarify" by trying to dismiss a claim he was "in his 30's" when he met Chan Tai San. Instead, Gus insists he was 24.

            The obvious problem is, it isn't an issue of being 24 or 31, it is an issue of claiming he was adopted as a "young boy" which his web site states

            http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...&postcount=154
            Here I quote a web site Gus Kaparos' senior student maintains. The same info was on Gus original web site but got taken down when the "controversy began"

            On Gus' student's page it reads

            "Sifu Gus Kaparos began his training at the age of 6 and is a direct disciple of Grandmaster Chan Tai San. He has instructor level ranking in over 10 styles of martial arts. It was this diverse background that allowed him to be a top student of the grandmaster. This 2 time full contact fighting champion met Si-Gung in the late 1980's. He began his training with Si-Gung and was indescribably impressed by this great teacher,"

            to which I raised the following questions

            1. The implication is that you started studing with CTS at 6!

            2. You met CTS in either late 1990 or early 1991. Even by your own admission. You were not withhim in the "1980's" (I have a letters and certificatdes statings I met CTS in 1986 by the way)

            3. Again, re-visiting questionable claims, where were you a 2 time full contact champion? I find this interesting becasue both Steve Ventura and I were 2 time AAU full contact Taekwondo NY state champions....

            Gus did not address any of these issues

            Comment


              #7
              Pot calling the kettle black...

              *getting my popcorn and waiting for the fun to start. Whenever Ross is involved, internet fun is sure to follow*

              I don't know anything about Gus, so I can't really comment on that. But Ross, I find it ironic that you are critiquing Gus' bio for being misleading. Here's your bio:

              Sifu David A Ross
              Director and founder of New York San Da
              Head instructor, San Da kickboxing
              David A Ross has been involved in the martial arts most of his life. He began training in Western boxing at the age of 8. A few years later, he began his study of Korean Taekwondo and Hapkido under the late Grand Master Pong Ki Kim, achieving a second degree black belt in both arts. David was also two time AAU New York state full contact champion. David continued to study many martial arts including Judo, Karate, Jiujitsu, Sambo and various forms of Chinese martial arts. He eventually dedicated himself to the late Master Chan Tai San who taught Lama Pai, Choy Lay Fut and San Da.
              In your bio you don't clarify that your "two time AAU New York state full contact champion" was in TKD when you were a kid. Criticising Gus' kinfe fighting claims after he took two seminars? How long and with who did you study judo and sambo under enough to claimed you "studied" these arts? A few seminars and internet chat with Mark Tripp and video tapes don't count. To say you "studied" these martial arts in your bio leads one to believe you have trained enough to obtain some proficiency of them. Why else would you put them in your bio? I will give you the jujitsu since you have been working with Carmine, but I know that has been in your bio long before you had Carmine in your gym. With whom did you study jujitsu before Carmine and for how long? What about Karate?

              Knowing your history with internet BS, I am shocked you would start a thread trashing Gus (I do admit his bio sounds very BS though)
              Last edited by sambosteve; 12/22/2007 7:25pm, .
              One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

              "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao

              Comment


                #8
                I find it really strange that you admit the bio "sounds very BS" but cant' stick to the topic. For example, his TEN black belt claims. ETC.

                Again, I went after Gus because he studied with my teacher and he is misprepresenting him. Something you even seem to have some awareness of...

                Oh, so you don't think I'm avoiding your comments

                1. So my full contact titles were in Taekwondo? Does that not make them legit titles? Since the AAU ONLY offered titles in Taekwondo, seems sort of irrevelvant to add that part in.

                I won them at ages 16 and 17 respectively (back then they were called JUNIOR titles). Why do they not count just because I got them as a junior?

                2. As I told you in person and by email, I did Judo in Queens NY with a Rodriguez. No, I don't have a black belt in Judo, I didn't say that in my bio either. I studied for a few years, then YES, I also learned stuff from Mark Tripp.

                Seems you are just looking for something to complain about

                3. Did Jiu Jitsu with Fabio Clemente (then Machado representative) in NY for a little over a year, now I have been with Carmine. Again, you already KNEW THAT... very disingenuous

                4. Karate? I have a black belt in Shotokan under Toyatoro Miyazaki organization, specifically Gustavo Larrea who was a 4th degree black belt under him

                Again, you already knew that, but I guess you just want to tear down this thread (even though you say you feel how "bs" Gus bio is)
                Last edited by nysanda; 12/23/2007 12:01am, .

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by lkfmdc
                  I find it really strange that you admit the bio "sounds very BS" but cant' stick to the topic. For example, his TEN black belt claims. ETC.

                  Then again, I noticed that not long ago you attacked Scott Sonnon. I seem to rememer Scott Sonnon involved in Russian marital art, competiting and teaching, back when you were still doing Taekwondo. You seem to like to complain about others.

                  Again, I went after Gus because he studied with my teacher and he is misprepresenting him. Something you even seem to have some awareness of...

                  Oh, so you don't think I'm avoiding your comments

                  1. So my full contact titles were in Taekwondo? Does that not make them legit titles? Since the AAU ONLY offered titles in Taekwondo, seems sort of irrevelvant to add that part in.

                  I won them at ages 16 and 17 respectively (back then they were called JUNIOR titles). Why do they not count just because I got them as a junior?

                  2. As I told you in person and by email, I did Judo in Queens NY with a Rodriguez. No, I don't have a black belt in Judo, I didn't say that in my bio either. I studied for a few years, then YES, I also learned stuff from Mark Tripp.

                  Seems you are just looking for something to complain about

                  3. Did Jiu Jitsu with Fabio Clemente (then Machado representative) in NY for a little over a year, now I have been with Carmine. Again, you already KNEW THAT... very disingenuous

                  4. Karate? I have a black belt in Shotokan under Toyatoro Miyazaki organization, specifically Gustavo Larrea who was a 4th degree black belt under him

                  Again, you already knew that, but I guess you just want to tear down this thread (even though you say you feel how "bs" Gus bio is)
                  No question Scott was involved in sambo longer than me. I never said otherwise.
                  I don't like to complain about folks at all. But, I do call BS when I think I see it. There are only a few occassions where I have gottn into internet stuff like this. Mainly with you...and most recently Scott. Unlike you, I don't have a long history of internet flame wars behind me. And if you actually read my comments about Scott on the various threads, you would see I did not "attack him". I never commented on his skill or history in RMA either...only his decietful marketing and some claims he is making. He was frankly questioned by several people about stuff on his new website - not just me. It grew from there. If I were you, I would go read the original thread and my posts before you comment on that stuff: http://www.worldwidegrappling.com/gr...newpost&t=1435

                  But, let's not derail this thread into being about Scott. There is a whole other Bullshido thread thread for that: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62211

                  Regarding this thread, thanks for answering the questions.

                  Irrelevant to add in TKD in your bio? Regarding your TKD AAU stuff, maybe the AAU only did that, but you are accusing Gus of doing the exact thing you are doing about the way he posted it - he omitted what style it was. If the AAU only did TKD, then you should know that was what Gus was talking about.

                  You also are attacking him on lack of info regarding what he teaches...as you do in your bio.

                  I did not know about Fabio clemente...over a year...huh? News to me. I did obviously know about Carmine...which I mentioned in my post.

                  A few years of judo with A. Rodriguez in Queens. OK. How often did you train with Tripp to qualify your saying you studied sambo?

                  I did not know about your black belt in Karate. I never saw that hanging on your wall at the club. I figured it would be up there with your others. Good. Now I know.

                  Regarding Gus (who I don't know personally). I will be glad to comment on that, but I have to read through all the stuff you posted and look into your claims. I agree, off the cuff anyone that claims 10 black belts smells like BS. But, when one training brother suddenly starts a thread about another he was not formally in disagreement with (no matter what his bio says) it smells of personal baggage or vendetta stuff coming through....rather than a real interest in exposing a fraud. I mean, I recall when you and Ventura used to complain about Parella's clubs being a kung-fu McDojos and not representin Lama properly. I even recall you calling him the TSK of Kung-fu. Now you guys seem to be OK with each other.

                  And, in all honesty, in my mind (and this is just my opinion), your credibility is very suspect based on your own history with internet controversey.
                  Last edited by sambosteve; 12/23/2007 12:13am, .
                  One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

                  "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by sambosteve

                    But, let's not derail this thread into being about Scott.
                    YES, I agree, let's just drop that. You might note that I had actually edited out that point from my post above. It is irrelevant to any of this

                    I don't think this thread has anything directly to do with me. It has to do with Gus. We asked him directly for over a year regarding "10 black belts" and he refused to answer. Compare that to how I just answered your inquiry.

                    When I met Gus in 1990ish (can not honestly remember if it was late 90 or early 91) he NEVER mentioned any full contact fighting in any tournament of any sort. I then spent the next 10 years or so in contact with him while we trained with CTS. So the obvious question is what "full contact" titles he won?

                    We all have "histories" Steve.....

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by lkfmdc
                      YES, I agree, let's just drop that. You might note that I had actually edited out that point from my post above. It is irrelevant to any of this

                      I don't think this thread has anything directly to do with me. It has to do with Gus. We asked him directly for over a year regarding "10 black belts" and he refused to answer. Compare that to how I just answered your inquiry.

                      When I met Gus in 1990ish (can not honestly remember if it was late 90 or early 91) he NEVER mentioned any full contact fighting in any tournament of any sort. I then spent the next 10 years or so in contact with him while we trained with CTS. So the obvious question is what "full contact" titles he won?

                      We all have "histories" Steve.....
                      I agree, we do all have histories. Some would say our troubled history led to my critique of you here...making my comments suspect. That is fine. I can be written off. I am OK with that.

                      But, as I see it, this thread does have to do with you in part as you are the one who laid out the accusations against Gus...and in my mind your accusations may be suspect because of histories. Look at most investigation threads here...people look into who is making the accusation and why. Many investigations go south becasue of who laid out the BS claim.

                      Regarding Gus, I will certainly read all that stuff during the holidays...
                      One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

                      "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Also, in fairness, Gus should be invited to comment here...
                        One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

                        "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao

                        Comment


                          #13
                          This "drama" has been going on for 2 years on the kung fu forum (links I already provided). He was asked direct questions on there and ducked all of them. It was suggested I put this here since it is what the forum is "about". But perhaps I am wrong? I don't post here much. So if this is not appropriate for here someone let me know


                          My "interest" is pretty evident, same teacher, his "mischaracterizations" reflect upon my teacher. As comparison, if someone was saying Alex's Combat Sambo involved hopping on one leg while making chicken sounds and invovled chi blasts I'm sure you'd want to set the record straight

                          Comment


                            #14
                            PS: to avoid any confusion, on the kung fu forum I am also "LKFMDC"

                            "Chan Siu Lum" is a person named Anthony Tardy
                            "Lama Pai Sifu" is a person named Mike Parrella

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I understand your motivations. You are also in the right forum (I think).

                              So, e-mail Gus, and tell him about this thread. Post a copy of the e-mail here for all to see. Let Gus speak or hide for himself. Maybe he will duck the questions, but if he does, it only helps your cause. But, here on BS, it is all about the proof, not the hearsay.

                              And, to answer your other questions....no, being a junior title does not make it illigitimate, but you should post it accurately on your bio...like you want Gus to do. Your lack of clarity is what makes you bio suspect, not the actual title itself.

                              And, you did not answer my question about sambo in your bio. All you said was that you learned soem stuff from Tripp - which I already had stated in my post. I know your did a seminar or two with Tripp. But, how often did you train in person with him...and is it enough to say you studied sambo in your bio? If it is just a few seminars, you are as huilty as Gus in that case. A few seminars does not mean you studied sambo.

                              Your bio is unclear and can be misunderstood (in your favor). They are not out right lies as you claim Gus has done, but they are ambiguous at best - lies of omission if you will. You list arts, but not your experience (or lack of experience) in the arts. If you trained one year with Clemente in BJJ, you should say it. If you did several years of judo, you should say it and with whom. Otherwise people will assume you are accomplished in all the styles you list. Just my advice. Because now you are attacking one man's bio, when your own is suspect.
                              One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

                              "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao

                              Comment

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