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Goshin Do/Goshin Jutsu karate rears its silly head again

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    #31
    so because your lazy, you want other people to do extra work to make it easy for you...

    and also, mcclafferty i dont believe posted multiple conflicting stories, other people might have. if you would have read the post, you would know that mcclafferty addressed his hall of fame induction.

    anyway, do what everyone else has done...start at page one, and go from there.

    Originally posted by Extinct
    Exactly because there are 100 plus pages of info there. Who is going to wade through all that just to get a straight answer?

    Additionally, there are at least a dozen different versions of McClafferty's relationship with Goshin posted there. The question about why, if he has renounced Goshin, he was inducted into the Durant-based Goshin "Hall of Fame" a few years ago was never answered. Same with why he keeps a photo of Durant in his dojo. These aren't the actions of a person who has renounced Durant as the fraud that he is.

    And finally, this claim "One of Shihan McClafferty's most prominent students was also one of his teachers - Hanshi William Cavalier" is new and has never been discussed on e-budo.

    Comment


      #32
      Anyone know "sokei" Steve Hunter's email address? This one: [email protected] bounces.

      Comment


        #33
        Here's another one:
        http://www.webspawner.com/users/goshinjutsu/index.html

        McClafferty "taught Goshin to the Green Berets/Special Forces"?? LOL

        Comment


          #34
          Once agian your concerns about this might be answered if you did a lil research...and by that i mean at least read mcclafferty's posts on e-budo

          Originally posted by Extinct
          Here's another one:
          http://www.webspawner.com/users/goshinjutsu/index.html

          McClafferty "taught Goshin to the Green Berets/Special Forces"?? LOL

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by bigphilwastaken
            Once agian your concerns about this might be answered if you did a lil research...and by that i mean at least read mcclafferty's posts on e-budo
            And once again I'll remind you that e-budo's search function is limited to only indicating which thread a certain term is mentioned in. Not the page or post #. That means that anyone wanting to retrieve a specific post has to READ.THE.ENTIRE.SEVEN.HUNDRED.POSTS to find it. Recently, a visitor to the site mentioned that it took more than an ENTIRE DAY to read it all.

            It's irrelevant anyway. These Goshinists change their stories like other people change their socks. Anything posted years ago on e-budo by these people is way out of date.

            Oops, here's another one!
            http://www.auburnkarate.com/frame1.html?96,89 This one says "Hanshi Cavalier attributes all of his knowledge to Grand Master Durant"

            Comment


              #36
              And yet another one:
              http://goshindairyu.cwcreate.com/


              This one claims:
              The late Grandmaster Gerard Durant brought the Goshin Jutsu Kyo Jujo system from Japan under the permission of Headmaster Murakami. Upon the death of Headmaster Murakami, Grandmaster G. Durant, holding the rank of Eighth Dan, was the highest ranked Black Belt Master of the Goshin Jutsu Yudanshakai. In 1974, after the passing of Headmaster Murakami, Master Gerard Durant was promoted to the rank of Soke, 10th Degree Red Belt by the Goshin Jutsu Yudanshakai.

              Again with the "being promoted by his own students" silliness. And more of the tired old "studied in Japan" lies. Hint to students of this dojo: There was no such person as "Murakami" who taught Durant anything. That is a proven fact.

              10th degree "red belt"?? Red belt? That's a new one.

              More fake "grandmasters" and "sokes". They're comin' outta the woodwork!

              Comment


                #37
                For those who are unable to access the e-budo archive, here is an abbreviated copy of M.C. Busman's exhaustive forensic analysis of the Goshin claims and his conclusion of Gerard/Gerald/Jerry Durant/Durante as a complete and total fraud:

                Survey of Research Materials regarding the history of Goshin Jutsu Karate Movement in the U.S. and Gerard Durant:

                Item 1: Video, several hours, including footage of Durant interview, several public demos, some of which Durant was present at and demonstrated technique, all with Goshin Jutsu Karate students. Durant does behave in an odd & flighty way, removed of decorum and politeness one expects from a master teacher of any subject. His use of racial epithats (while having African-American students) is ridiculous. Many of his students showed good strength and force, but lacked in the focus department, and had some technical problems with execution despite high rank.

                Item #2: copy of 1967 certificate to "Jerard Durant", with "January" written in the year designator, "27" written above month designator kanji, and "1967" written above day designator kanji.

                Item #3: Commentary by Guy H. Power dated 5-20-98 with his commentary and accompanying translation of certificate granting rokkyu to "Arugiaruro, Kiyannata", including inconsistencies and mistakes in kanji, and the spurious name of a ?grandmaster? "Hayaguchi Otoko".

                Item #4: Certificate from Richard P. Baillargron granting Gerard Durant "Go-Dan", written in English

                Item #5: Commentary & Certificate from Guy H. Power, dated 6-17-98 on a Rolf Strom certificate for 5th kyu dated 3-24-1992: badly drawn certificate with severl kanji written incorrectly, nearly illegibly by someone who obviously does not know how to write kanji, and only had access to a magic marker or calligraphy pen. Guy Power documents mistake after mistake, there can be no doubt this certificate was put together by someone who does not know Japanese. Uses Hiragana to spell foreign word instead of Katakana, etc. Many Problems...

                Item #6: Another Rolf Strom Certificate, for rokkyu in "Goshin Aikijujutsu" dated 1-22-1993, kanji for "aiki" are completely wrong and run together to form a single character, "doh" and "jutsu" are used together, something that doesn't happen in japanese.under signature of Larry Roy, badly done katakana and the wrong kanji for "5th dan", his claimed rank from Durant.

                Item #7: Another commentary by Guy Power on another certificate for Rolf Strom, for rokkyu in Karate dated 11-4-1991, signed by Durant, Parmenter, Larry Roy, and an illegible name...personal name stamp nest to Durant's signature actually reads "Kuroiwa", a Japanese surname meaning "black rock"...it is upside down. Writing for Goshin Jutsu rendered in hiragana...Power also points out this is a sign of unreliability, along with some other problems with the Goshin seal.

                Item #8: "Definitions" sheet from Goshin Jutsu, including a definition for "Sensi" [sic] as "Your Instructor", "Kayoto" [sic] as "Your Instructor's Instructor", not at all in keeping with the japanese language...improper spelling in romanji, improper use of the term "Kayoto" (kyoto?).

                Item #9: Obituary for Durant, dated 7-17-91, clarifying that he was born in Utica, New York (not in Japan as he told people for years).

                Item #10: Rokkyu diploma for "Kenneth Allgeier", dated 8-15-72 in the art of "Goshin Jutsu-ryu no Karate-Do", signed by Jerry Durant in English followed by the title "sensei, and also in hirigana by someone named "Hayaguchi Otoko", a name which Guy Power discredits (and I verify) as phony since it is a.) not a Japanese name, B.) written in hirigana, and not kanji, as would be a proper signature.

                Item #11: "Goshin Jutsu Kyu Jujo" requirements for 8th to 7th kyu. Includes among other things, Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate creed listed as the "Shushi no Karate or Karate creed" (Shushi no Karate makes no sense grammatically in Japanese).

                Item #12: "History" of William Cavalier from www.auburnkarate.com/history

                Item #13: "Tatsu-Do History", style of William Cavalier, student of Durant. At the bottom of the page it is stated that the "...Tatsu-Do system has been recognized as a legitimate system by Master Aoki, 10th Dan of Shorei Ryu style"...can someone tell me who Aoki is? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but..I can't find an Aoki under Shorei Ryu.

                Item #14: Goshinjutsuryu, from "\Goshinjutsuryu-history.htm" page 1, says that Carl McClafferty went to Japan and demonstrated before Ritsuke Otake, wo it says, "...recognized the art and it's techniques" [sic]. It doesn't say what Otake recognized them as (that is...legitimate, or more bad budo?).

                Item #15: From "\Goshinjutsuryu-history.htm" page 2, says that Goshij jutsu Karate Association is "...pretty much a Shito ryu variant...", also that "Carl McCafferty went to Japan and formed the ryuha under Soke Mak's Mizu Hi with the help and guidance of Soke Mak and Ritsuke Otake...Carl, who already held menkyo in mizu Hi kenjutsu and Nanadan in GJK [Goshin Jutsu Karate], elected to leave the bickering behind, and simply incorporate GJK into the mizu Hi and Akaitatsu ryu as one of the ryu ha of the system".

                Item #16: 1982 handout, "Master Robert Bohac, Goshin Jutsu 6th degree, Aiki Jutsu 5th Degree, Kobu Jutsu (weapons) 5th Degree, Chi Lin Tao Kung Fu SiFu Level, Choy-Lay-Fut Kung-Fu 4th degree, Jui Jutsu 5th Degree, Iai-do-quick draw sword 1st Degree, Shihan Rhyu Jui-jutsu 4th Degree" [sic], also Bohac's claimed lineage, including name of Robert white, who says he never taught Bohac anything and doesn't know why Bohac is using his name. Bohac's history of karate states that Goshin justu Karate is a "...combination of hard and advanced soft movements which originated in Canton, China".

                Item #17: History of durant as perpetuated by Goshin-Do Karate Institute of Ralph Porfilio. Claims among other things that Durant studied at the "Osaka Kodikan"[sic] in 1930's, being the 12th American certified...this is at least 10 years before the first Americans really were introduced to karate. Claims Durant lived in Osaka for many years and earned rank in "Aiki Jutsu, kobudo, Aiki-Do as well as Judo". No records anywhere corroborate this claim, or the officious assertion of Porfilio that Durant "studied with Shigeru Murakami, a Samurai Prince who is credited with systemizing Okinowan[sic] and chinese Empty Hand forms". Historically, there is no evidence to suggest Durant was ever in japan, or that this Murakami person, dubiously referred to as a "samurai Prince" ever existed.

                Item #18: "History of Our Style, organization and school" typed page, claims that "Our style of Goshin Jutsu can be traced to the teachings of jamaka and Murakami in Fukuoka, Japan, (west coast) during and after the period of WW II...One of the students of the period 1949-1953, Master Jerry Durant, brought the style to Erie, Pennsylvania, with a set of formulated kata which are similar to ours today".

                Item #19: "Green Belt Requirements Arashi Te Karate Dojo" signed by Matt Durant-Nidan 12/3/90. Includes index of uniquely Goshin Jutsu Karate forms, like "Hajimete Undo no Karate Do", " Unako", "Bando no Undo", "Arashi ni Kaze", etc. Goshin Jutsu Creed differs from Parker Kenpo Creed now. Also magazine ad for Goshin Jutsu International Karate Association claiming "Roots in the U.S. since the 1940's".

                Item #20: Jeff DeSantis Twin Dragon Martial Arts Club, says that DeSantis "is the founder of Ryu Shin Kai Karate, holds a 7th Degree Black belt in Goshin Jutsu Karate plus various other black belt rankings in Shuri Ryu, Shotokan, Kempo, and Chi Lin Pai Kung Fu and is a member in good standing in the Mizu Hi Kobukan". Anyone tell me more about this "Mizu Hi Kobukan" I've been hearing about? I've never heard of this group or Soke Mak, can't find 'em in any of my budo & kobudo reference books in japanese or English.

                Item #21: Yama Arashi Dojo Erie, Pennsylvania Sensei David Mountain print out

                Item #22: Certificate in Tatsu-Do Aiki-Jutsu issued to Grand Master Durant on 10-11-84, signed by William R. Cavalier and "Daiku Yama", which is <b>not</b> a Japanese name. This certificate promotes "Grand Master Durant" to the rank of "Ju-Dan, 10th Degree Black Belt".

                Item #23: Certificate in Tatsu-Do Karate issued to Grand Master Durant on 11-10-84, promoting him to Ju-Dan, signed by William Cavalier and again the mysterious "Daiku Yama", which is not a Japanese name. Did Durant sign his own certificate, or is this an alias used by Cavalier to appear as if he has "authentic Asian approval"?

                Item #24: Note of Cavalier's history and a note saying that he is in Jail in NY state...anyone know what for? I need to re-read some old posts...

                Item #25: "A Brief Hostory of Master Durant", rehash of the Samurai Prince bit, claims Durant was nominated for 10th dan in 1974 by 70 American Black Belts, with approval of the Okinawan Karate Federation. Claims "Kyoto" means "Teacher of Teachers", but it does <b>not</b> mean this.

                Item #26: Early list of kata names for Durant's Goshin Jutsu, including: Mittsu, Futatsu, Ugo ni Roku, Ichi Bando, Chuoku-te, etc.

                Item #27: Rules in the Dojo sheet, Master Gerald Durant, Director.

                Item #28: "American Dojo Karate History", more claims about Durant being a karate pioneer, saying he studied Aiki Jutsu, Aikido, Okinawan Weaponry (but evidently not kanji, hirigana, katakana, or grammer). About Gary Michak.

                Item #29: Imperial Martial Arts club, 1st Degree Black Belt Certificate to "Sensei Allgeier" in the art of "Goshin Jutsu Karate" on 8-22-81, signed Ralph porfilio, Sensei (also written above in katakana, apparently a goshin tradition).

                Item #30: About Ralph Porfilio saying he is registered member of "several National and World-wide Karate Organizations, he is also registered #27 in Osaka & Tokyo Japan". What Organization in Osaka & Tokyo, by whom? Was this just something he was told by Durant or the man he writes he is still, at the time, taking instruction from, Vince Cristiano?

                Item #31: Staff printout, James Martin Kerr, Joaqin Morrow...

                Item #32: Original Goshin Jutsu Kyo Jujo card of guy Savelli, signed by William A Reeders, NOT Durant. Durant was one time student of Reeders...

                Item #33: Certificate all in Japanese, for Ken Allgeier...same wierd cert Guy Power comments on earlier, 5th kyu, sane nonsense name for teacher of "Hayaguchi Otoko", meaning fittingly enough, fast-talking man"!!

                Item #34: "Learn the art of empty hand fighting", ad flier for Goshin Jutsu Tora no Dojo...member Christian Karate Association, etc.

                Item #35: Kata handout, "Goshin Jutsu International Hajimete Tonfa" approved by Master M. Durant, Director 8-22-92.

                Item #36: Goshin Jutsu Yellow Belt Requirements & Terminology, including still the incorrect definitiotns of misused terms, "Kyoto- Instructor's Instructor", etc.

                Item #37: Large Certificate, Recognizing Catherine Church as President of the Kamishin-Kai, "Pledges support to her in continuing the work of Soke Albert C. Church". Signed by Soke Shogo Kuniba and Shihan Herndon of United States Honbucho, dated 23 Nov 1980. Sealed by Kuniba over both his signed Kanji name and his signed English name.

                Item #38: Large fold out certificate, signed by Masaru B. Shintani, Supreme instructor 5th dan, "This is to certify that G. Durant has this day been graded and qualified to the rank of Yodan in recognition of his diligence, honour, and sincerity in the study of Karat. he has proven himself to be mentally, spiritually, and physically worthy of this rank. Dated at St. Catherines, Ontario, this 12th day of November 1966 in the Name of the Nippon Karate Kai (International). International President: A. Kitagawa, 10th Dan North American Preident: C. Yamaga. The seal on this cert is the Goshin Jutsu seal, there are no hanko seals, and the signitures of Masaru B. Shintani look suspiciously similar to the handwriting of Durant in other certificates. This cert does not look authentic. It lookes like it was printed here in the U.S., Nothing to suggest this cert is authentic. "Registration No. BL-1000-3". If this org. is legit, there would be some record of this cert today, right?? Still, why no hanko seal, why the sigs only in english, why the similarities to Durant's sig?

                First, I'd like to thank Ken Allgeier for sharing the materials. I can state that after viewing them I now have <b>no doubts</b> from what I have seen that Gerard Durant not only never studied in Japan, but never studied with a Japanese teacher in ANY art, or obtained sho-dan from any teacher in any system, in or outside of the U.S..

                My conclusion is the result more of the evidence that there was plenty of fakery going on than of the conduct of Durant, although watching his demeanor and actions on tape made it very clear that he was something of n eccentric individual who had one set of rules for himself, and another for his followers. My reasoning is thus: IF Durant studied in Japan, obtained rank in a legit Japanese art, he would have something authentic to tie him to a teacher or organization that could verify this...a picture, a certificate with a full signature that could be checked against the org's records in Japan, another legit person to verify claims. But not only are there no pictures or films of him with anyone related to authentic Japanese martial arts (be they Japanese, American, or Canadian), but there are NO legitimate certificates that can back up the Durant camp's claims of lineage legitimacy. As a matter of fact, the existence of phony certs with dubious kanji, katakana, misused hiragana, misunderstanding of Japanese dates, non-existant Japanese names and so on, only seem to confirm that no Japanese person, and no person with any understanding of the Japanese Language had anything to do with Durant's training or the development of his unique martial art, Goshin Jutsu Karate.

                From the evidence presented, I have to agree with the conclusion of Ken Allgeier, who had the advantage of meeting and studying with the people who ran this organization when he was an inside member of this group and got to observe its workings and ethos first hand. Gerard Durant apparently had a habit of being untruthful about his training, and all evidence and accounts suggest that he created his own martial art with a minimum of training for a very short period of time, never passing beyond blue belt. Through the cult of personality, he was eventually able to convince people, many of whom were ignorant at the time of what karate was, to study with him and take his version of events as fact.

                Comment


                  #38
                  I have seen this list of "evidence" before and I met Ken Allgier about 6 yrs ago in borders at the martial arts section (he was kinda creepy, anyways...) The most important thing is that i like it and i have a lot of fun in class and have met some really good people. I don't think in todays martial arts lineage is the most important thing, especially with the popularity of MMA Many of those people get so much information from different people that they never get a firm foundation. Goshin has developed a foundation of basics and they are highly stressed in class. Fortunately if I ever do end up in a confrontation my oponent won't make me take a written test of my teachers teachers teacher. As far as application, I have won many tournaments in my martial carreer, have had one minor incident where I had to subdue some one, and have seen a fellow black belt who is a security guard subdue someone. So maybe we don't have traditional kata (they do have bunkai) but I have a good time doing it and I believe in it

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by bigphilwastaken
                    The video tape talked about in the e-budo posts about this (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9092) i am in the process of uploading to youtube. I talked to ken and he has given me permission to upload it. its about 4 hours long in total...so what is on youtube will be highlights...but i will have a full download available for anyone who wants it.

                    -Phil






                    I agree you are going to have to segment/edit the various clips to make it more watch-able to the YouTube viewers, as in their shorter attention spans.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by goshinkaratekid
                      I have seen this list of "evidence" before and I met Ken Allgier about 6 yrs ago in borders at the martial arts section (he was kinda creepy, anyways...) The most important thing is that i like it and i have a lot of fun in class and have met some really good people. I don't think in todays martial arts lineage is the most important thing, especially with the popularity of MMA Many of those people get so much information from different people that they never get a firm foundation. Goshin has developed a foundation of basics and they are highly stressed in class. Fortunately if I ever do end up in a confrontation my oponent won't make me take a written test of my teachers teachers teacher. As far as application, I have won many tournaments in my martial carreer, have had one minor incident where I had to subdue some one, and have seen a fellow black belt who is a security guard subdue someone. So maybe we don't have traditional kata (they do have bunkai) but I have a good time doing it and I believe in it
                      Hello GKK,

                      I really have no ax to grind in this fight, and wish you well in your martial arts travels.


                      Hopefully it is a good supportive environment where you are frequently working out and learning some effective techniques. However the odds are within a few years you are most likely leave your current system (as it is with all M.A. schools). Many people will eventually get back on to the mat - however - when you pick up another study there is an extra emotional burden when you find out about your time spent was with "a questionable lineage". Students who escape from bad M.A. personality cults carry the biggest burden, like from con man and convicted felon John C. Kim of CMD/OYD infamy.

                      Some inquiries:
                      If your teachers are claiming to be traditional Japanese karate and practice kata, then, are your Goshin style's kata mostly similar other orthodox styles? Should a question not be made to your instructors, why the major differences?
                      Do Goshin kata have names common with established Japanese / Okinawan systems?
                      Durant claimed he did not invent them.

                      To repeat the old cliche, "Lineage never helped you in a bar fight".





                      But do not close your eyes or mind.
                      Good luck!

                      Comment


                        #41
                        I think anyone who goes with the "he may be talking crap but the training is good" argument should have to post video of a training session.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Extinct
                          Your "master"?? What are you, a serf or something?

                          What IS it with these Goshin people and their absurd, inflated titles?

                          Oooh, ohh I'm gonna join Goshin, then I can call myself Super Duper Grandmaster Sosho Kyoto Doshu Hanshi Sokei Smith!

                          It will only take a weekend for one of the other Grandmasters to get promoted by his own students (Goshin people call that the "yooDon Shack hi") and he'll outrank me by Monday morning but wow, what a weekend its gonna be!
                          I called him that cuz thats what i consider him to be, and knowing Bill personally i know he has high ranks in other styles and i also know he is a much better martial artist then you will ever be. I called him master cuz i like the sound of it better then my Hanshi. But also Durant had a shodan in judo so he did not just give himself one either. You guy's just like to bitch so maybe you actually know someone abillitys before you start saying shit about them.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Oh and Bill Cavalier has a black belt in Chitu Ryu Karate, Yoshin Ryu Ju Jutsu, Shito Ryu Karate, Chinese Kempo, And a black sash in Pai Lum. and i know what he teaches works cuz i've used in a fight before

                            Comment


                              #44
                              master durants son said this

                              He was born in Utica, N.Y. He was introduced to Jiu Jutsu and Savate by his father who was a "player" as they were called. I cannot give you facts other than what I know as far as training or Instructors. I DO know he was a Judo Player in the Judo Club in St.Catherines, Ont. Canada. I still have his Shodan card from that. I also KNOW he worked out for many years with Shintani Sensei, and have ways to back that up.

                              He worked with other Instructors in Erie, Pa, and met Wilhelm Reeders during those years and studied with him for quite awhile. As for the founding of the system, I know this will shock a few, but he did not found the system. Back in those days, the Orientals would never have recognized a system of Martial Arts created by an occidental.(White person) The system was actually founded under Mr. Reeders. And it was called Goshin Jutsu, which most know is just like a generic term for Self Defense Art.

                              When Master Reeders left the area, he turned the Goshin Jutsu over to my father. And the art itself is an eclectic art. My father took what he had learned from all the Instructors he had worked with, took what he felt was best, along with what he had learned as a young man raised on mean streets, and put it all together as his Art. And though people may condemn it as not being a true Art, 2 things we should remember. 1.......The art works as a self defense style. That has and can be proven. And 2.......other people have formed there own arts, all eclectic also, and are not condemned. (Bruce Lee to name one, and I am not making a comparison here.)

                              As for the act, such as the Oriental accent, believe me I was just as shocked when I walked in his Dojo in Tx., and heard it. But it was an idea someone had put in his head, that if he were Oriental, more people would want to be students. And silly as that seems, it worked. He had only Martial Arts to live on the last years of his life, so he did what he had to do to survive. No secret there. We all know he was not Oriental.

                              His 10th Dan? I can only say that he was presented the rank at a tournament in Erie, Pa., and Glenn Premru presented the ranking.

                              As for the real head of the system? Supposedly it should be me. I was presented a rank in N.Y. a few years ago. I respect the man who presented it, and accepted , rather than embarrass either him or myself. But I do not recognize myself as tenth Dan, nor do I want to be addressed as "Grand Master". I was a good 8th Dan, and felt that was way more than enough. There are better Goshinists than I around. Robert Bohac is a phenomenal Martial Artist, but I, nor any others outside his circle recognize him as the Grand Master. Mr. Brague is a great Martial Artist, but his ranking is through his own people, not recognized by all Goshinists. Mr. Capela in my mind would if anyone be the person I would recognize . He was the oldest student, and has always been a Loyal Goshinist. And anyone who has ever met the man, knows he is a gentleman, and one hell of a Martial Arts practitioner.
                              That is just my humble opinion people, if you disagree, that is your perrogative. There were other great Goshinists along the way too.......Ralph Porfilio, Vince Christiano, Bill Cavalier, etc. None of them deserve some of the ridicule I have seen, as they are not nasty people, nor drug addicts, alcoholics, etc, as I have seen posted in some sites.
                              I see this as one way, let it go...........

                              Goshin may not be the pure art some seem to think it has to be to be real, but it works, and has many followers, loyal ones. There are NO bad Martial Arts, just bad teachers. I have respect for any art, even if it's principles are different. I may not agree with everything they do, but maybe there will be one thing I can learn from it, and as a Martial Artist, that is all I want, to learn.

                              As for stories, or peoples claims, they will claim a lot of things, and stories get embellished, sometimes to the point of being ridiculous. But you all seem smart enough to sift through all that, and take the truth, or take something from it that will help you as Martial Artists.
                              I hope this helps a little. Anyone has any questions that are not ignorant, I would gladly try and help."

                              Comment


                                #45
                                the majority of the people who are involved in this issue dont make any claims about his personal ability OUTSIDE of what we have seen on video and 1st and expereince. so i really dont understand where this comment is coming from.

                                and even if hes bruce lee combined with chuch norris and thor...hes still a fraud

                                Originally posted by btbl
                                I called him that cuz thats what i consider him to be, and knowing Bill personally i know he has high ranks in other styles and i also know he is a much better martial artist then you will ever be. I called him master cuz i like the sound of it better then my Hanshi. But also Durant had a shodan in judo so he did not just give himself one either. You guy's just like to bitch so maybe you actually know someone abillitys before you start saying shit about them.

                                Comment

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