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    kosen judo

    i've heard this style mentioned as being a type of judo with a groundfighting emphasis that is similar to BJJ. anyone know if this style is still alive and if it's being used in MMA? does it have any distinguishing characteristics from other groundfighting styles?

    #2
    From my understanding it is a college form of Judo that was on off shoot from Judo. It is almost identical to BJJ except a greater focus on chokes and less guard.
    And that's when I figured out that tears couldn't make somebody who was dead alive again. There's another thing to learn about tears, they can't make somebody who doesn't love you any more love you again. It's the same with prayers. I wonder how much of their lives people waste crying and praying to God. If you ask me, the devil makes more sense than God does. I can at least see why people would want him around. It's good to have somebody to blame for the bad stuff they do. Maybe God's there because people get scared of all the bad stuff they do. They figure that God and the Devil are always playing this game of tug-of-war game with them. And they never know which side they're gonna wind up on. I guess that tug-of-war idea explains how sometimes, even when people try to do something good, it still turns out bad.

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      #3
      if you want more detail look in the bjj=basicly just judo thread in short it is a form of judo where the groundwork rules are relaxed and it looks very similar to bjj

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        #4
        This is Kodokan Judo we're talking about? That's pretty similar to BJJ...
        "Training = pain." - I said that.

        PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.

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          #5
          Kosen was just a university team that specialised in the judo ground techniques. Which is more or less a description of BJJ. Not to be confused with the Kodokan which without doubt, promotes standing technique.

          I'd ask the judoinfo people for a better description.

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            #6
            Kosen Judo is Kodokan Judo set to different rules. It was practices in sevr universities and focuses on ground work. It is said that Maeda was proficient in this method as well which is why BJJ is the way it is.
            ______
            Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

            RIP SOLDIER

            Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
            -Gene, GODHAND

            You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
            The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
            -Daniel Tosh

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              #7
              Where's alter7nate when you need him?

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                #8
                Where's the damn Kosen Judo schools? :(

                <Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
                <John> I'd have to smack you sometime...
                Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."

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                  #9
                  I don't know of any Kosen Schools outside of Japan but since BJJ this Judo has been haveing a resurgence of intrest.
                  ______
                  Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

                  RIP SOLDIER

                  Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
                  -Gene, GODHAND

                  You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
                  The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
                  -Daniel Tosh

                  Comment


                    #10
                    alter7nate is in Brazil tapping Gracies with Kosen judo techniques that they haven't stolen yet.
                    "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."

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                      #11
                      From what I've heard, Kosen Judo began in Japan AFTER Maeda arrived in Brazil.

                      I've also heard that old Kosen Judo footage looks very much, if not exactly like BJJ.

                      Personally I believe that it is the logical evolution of the art around the rules it trains under. For example, if you take a group of Judoka, change the rules they train for to BJJ rules, odds are that their groundwork will look very much like BJJ, sans techniques not regularly trained by Judoka. However, these too will be discovered in time.

                      When you place rules around a martial art, the evolution of said art is made to conform to those rules. I doubt anyone will state that the striking abilities of an average, non-cross-training Judoka are equal to those of a Muay Thai fighter. Likewise, I think that everyone will agree that the throwing abilities of a non-cross-trained Muay Thai fighter are equal to those of a Judoka.

                      Yet Judo has striking techniques, and Muay Thai has throws.

                      It's all what you emphasise...

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                        #12
                        It was practiced in several universities and focuses on ground work. It is said that Maeda was proficient in this method as well which is why BJJ is the way it is.
                        Yeah the Graice actually admit that in general too, although they were careful to call the Kodokan Judo that Maeda knew Japanese Jiu Jitsu. At least that Maeda taught them pure JJJ even though JJJ was exstinct practically even when it was at it's most effective and Kodokan Judo had taken over, and Maeda had been learning that for the past ten years or something (which is another reason why it's utterly ridiculous to do JJJ or any art remotely similar or practically identical to it now, at least for reasons of fighting.)

                        The Gracies even go as far to say in their history that some of the top Kodokan Judo Japanese fighters were actually the top Japanese Jiu Jitsu fighters.

                        Anyway BJJ is still very good, proven too. Judo is definitely damn good too though - even the pure sport stuff (Kosen or whatever), let alone the true Kodokan stuff. The fact remains that BJJ has it's own style i.e. it's still more ground orientated that even Kodakan Judo, and probably uses the guard much more. It's quite possibly even the "new" Kodokan Judo if you will.




                        Edited by - Blad3 on October 12 2003 08:21:26
                        "Training = pain." - I said that.

                        PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          >At least that Maeda taught them pure JJJ even though JJJ was exstinct practically even when it was at it's most effective and Kodokan Judo had taken over, and Maeda had been learning that for the past ten years or something (which is another reason why it's utterly ridiculous to do JJJ or any art remotely similar or practically identical to it now, at least for reasons of fighting.)


                          Actually Maeda went to Kano to finish is JJ training. Maeda and Kano had trained the same ryuha, Tenshin Shin'yo, but Maeda was only a novice. Kano thought it would be better for him to learn his Judo (there was another art that was called JUDO the predates Kano by about 300yrs)

                          >The Gracies even go as far to say in their history that some of the top Kodokan Judo Japanese fighters were actually the top Japanese Jiu Jitsu fighters.

                          That is true. That is why alot of pple cried foul at the early shiai's between JJ and Judo. They say Kano stacke the deck in his favor.
                          ______
                          Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

                          RIP SOLDIER

                          Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
                          -Gene, GODHAND

                          You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
                          The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
                          -Daniel Tosh

                          Comment


                            #14
                            "Stacking the deck" in your favour is a tactic in martial arts competitions (sporting or NHB) that has probably been around for a thousand or more years, and will probably be around for a thousand more.

                            Kano was nobody's fool, and it doesn't surprise me that he filled his ranks with the best fighters of the time for the early shiai and the Tokyo Met Police shiai. On the other hand, its pretty well documented that those guys went to him. Everyone wants to be on the winning team.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Stacking the deck in your favor...something else the Gracies stole from Judo (see UFC).
                              And that's when I figured out that tears couldn't make somebody who was dead alive again. There's another thing to learn about tears, they can't make somebody who doesn't love you any more love you again. It's the same with prayers. I wonder how much of their lives people waste crying and praying to God. If you ask me, the devil makes more sense than God does. I can at least see why people would want him around. It's good to have somebody to blame for the bad stuff they do. Maybe God's there because people get scared of all the bad stuff they do. They figure that God and the Devil are always playing this game of tug-of-war game with them. And they never know which side they're gonna wind up on. I guess that tug-of-war idea explains how sometimes, even when people try to do something good, it still turns out bad.

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