More BJJ bullshido - The Gracie Combatives Licensing Program™

[ps1]

I spoke with Pedro Sauer about this course. He explained to me that the blue belt is not something you get with the course. Rather, the blue belt is a prerequisite for graduation from the course.

He told me the course is meant to be taught in three parts. It's supposed to be for military & law enforcement types. The first level of the course deals with prevention of takedowns and weapons retention. The second level teaches the ground. The third level is where you spend a minimum (for some people it takes longer, obviously) of 100 hours training BJJ to earn your blue belt.

There are 10 pages of text and if this has been mentioned, I'm sorry. But I thought it was worth mentioning.

[Epeeist]

Anyone have a list of the 34 techniques?

Sorry if this is a thread necro but since this was asked a few times and someone might search it, here are the techniques listed in the manual. (Not sure if this violates some copyright BS or forum rule, if so, please delete). THere are more than 34 perhaps because some are doubled up and used in different applications or perhaps because they don't count some of these as "techniques."

1. Trap and Roll Escape
2. Americana Armlock
3. Positional Control
4. Take the Back
5. RNC
6. Leg Hook Takedown
7. Clinch (Aggressive Opponent)
8. Punch Block Series (Stage 1-4)
9. Straight Armlock
10. Triangle Choke
11. Elevator Sweep
12.Elbow Escape
13. Positional control
14. Body fold takedown
15. Clinch (Conservative opponent)
16. Headlock Counters
17. Double leg takedown
18. Head lock escape 1
19.Straight Armlock
20. Double Ankle Sweep
21. Pull Guard (Is this really a "street" move?)
22.Headlock escape 2
23. Guillotine choke
24. Shrimp escape
25. Kimura
26. Standing Headlock Defense
27. Punch Block Series (Stage 5)
28. Hook Sweep
29. Rear Takedown
30. Haymaker Punch Defense
31. Take the Back
32. Guillotine Defense
33. Elbow Escape from Side Mount
34. Standing Armlock
35. Twisting Arm Control
36. Double Underhook Guard Pass

[ForkLiftRacer]

Ya, they are apparently giving out blue belts like candy. I just read about this. Check out their "exclusivity" requriements:



What the fuck? Would you like fries with that? That you have to sign a NDA amuses me. All the "techniques" and "technologies" are already in US Army Combatives. I could just read my brother's manual and have him teach me all the techniques for free. What a joke.

I always wanted an exclusive territory. :icon_bril

Sadly I was never able to achieve this in my Mary Kay sales. :sleepy7:

[herbm]

I finally got round to listening to the Fightworks Podcast interview with Rener yesterday, ...

But best thing to do is of course listen to the man himself and draw your own conclusions.

The talk with Rener is the last of three interviews, taking up the last 22 minutes or so (I think: might have been that it was 22 minutes into the show).

It's the former (last 22 minutes). Right at 28:29 INTO the show for those who don't want to listen to the other segments or hunt around for this one.

If you have wget (or another command line web getter) then use this:

wget "http://www.thefightworkspodcast.com/podcasts/fightworkspodcastepisode89.mp3"

[slideyfoot]

I finally got round to listening to the Fightworks Podcast interview with Rener yesterday, where he attempts to answer the three big concerns, among a general discussion of the Gracie Combatives course.

In response to Caleb's question asking if this could lead to watering down BJJ (his full answer is much longer):

[...] if we just show them the techniques, and said go for it, go teach, that would be one thing, but if we spend half of the time of the course teaching them the techniques to perfection, and then provided they perfect those techniques, because the ones who don't perfect the techniques won't be able to complete the course, they move on to the second phase of the course which would be the Gracie teaching technologies. Then we spend the whole second phase on teaching them how to present the techniques...its a different level than just showing them the moves and sending them out on their own.

In response to a question asking if they get a blue belt after the course (again, full response much longer):

[...] after completing this course, they will qualify for a technical blue belt if everything is perfect. Now, just because they're attending doesn't mean they'll get it, but its within reach for those who qualify

Then finally, in response to the question of problems the public might have differentiating between Gracie Jiu Jitsu and Gracie Combatives, Rener again mentions that he feels the Gracie Combatives course the new instructors will be teaching is in fact superior to what many BJJ black belts run through in their class (again, the sport vs street argument).

The overall message I get is that Rener feels that they've developed this course to such a highly specific level that he's confident the product won't get watered down and will result in good self defence training.

But best thing to do is of course listen to the man himself and draw your own conclusions.

The talk with Rener is the last of three interviews, taking up the last 22 minutes or so (I think: might have been that it was 22 minutes into the show).

[Askari]

But, in all seriousness, this is taking a great art, BJJ not Gracie JJ, and turning it into something comical. This hurts the image of BJJ, grappling, MMA, and the martial arts in general.

This doesnt really.

We've always known that Rorion was primarily interested in getting rich from teaching GJJ.

This is Mcdojo, but not an inferior product. It doesnt even come close to making people smell dog shit.

[nobleidea]

I agree with this. I honestly don't know what to expect the Gracies to do with this program.

I know I come off as being a troll, because to some degree I am. I throw rude comments to get people thinking.

But, in all seriousness, this is taking a great art, BJJ not Gracie JJ, and turning it into something comical. This hurts the image of BJJ, grappling, MMA, and the martial arts in general.

I found a similar situation with Moni Aizik. I attended a seminar with Mr. Aizik, it was descent, nothing special. However, afterward he approached several of the students he deemed as "superior" to the rest of the attendees and spoke with us at length about becoming a KKM instructor. When I asked how long it would take, he told me each seminar for a level would be 5 days.

Now, I ask you, how am I going to become proficient in KM or anything in 5 days? Futhermore, how am I going to teach someone else?

When I brought up this point, I was quickly dismissed, and told it was because KKM was quick and easy to learn. :eusa_wall

[nobleidea]

..and 96 for the people who can actually count!

:laughing4

Thanks for pointing that out! :laughing4

[RobT]

Judo has 67 throws and 29 Newaza techniques. That's 97 techniques for the math morons like myself.

...and 96 for the people who can actually count!

[Teh El Macho]

Judo has 67 throws and 29 Newaza techniques. That's 97 techniques for the math morons like myself. Lets say hypothetically you take 5 throws and 29 newaza techniques, well, that's 34 techniques, I don't see how someone with no grappling experience is going to become proficent in 34 techs in 2 weeks, even under an intense training method.

Honestly, it sounds a little like Krav Maga.

I agree with this. I honestly don't know what to expect the Gracies to do with this program.

[Milquetoast]

Why is a guy with "Tai Chi gymkata" in his style field talking all this trash? He won't even admit what he does. Or he is trying to make it seem like a joke if he really does Tai Chi. Yeah, this program would be a great idea if they didn't hand out a blue belt at the end, but everybody in TMA's (including me) should spend less time waiting for the Gracies to mess up BJJ, and more time training to try to make their arts respectable again.

[Askari]

Again, to me it comes down to the sparring. My guess is there is little or no sparring in this program, making the instruction virtually useless and exponentially more useless when passed on to future students.

I'd be incredibly surprised if the Gracie's taught any sort of class with little or no sparring.

[gangrelchilde]

If you want my serious thoughts on the subject, I can summarize them rather quick. It is ridiculous to hand someone with 0 grappling background a belt and instructorship after 2 weeks. Even an exceptional student could not do this.

I actually agree with this portion of your post. I think the rest of your comments aren't worth responding to, so I won't.

[wingchundo]

Again, to me it comes down to the sparring. My guess is there is little or no sparring in this program, making the instruction virtually useless and exponentially more useless when passed on to future students.

Rock and roll, man, all I can say is, bring on these new "white" and "blue" belts. It'll be fun choking them senseless at tournies.

[nobleidea]

Judo has 67 throws and 29 Newaza techniques. That's 97 techniques for the math morons like myself. Lets say hypothetically you take 5 throws and 29 newaza techniques, well, that's 34 techniques, I don't see how someone with no grappling experience is going to become proficent in 34 techs in 2 weeks, even under an intense training method.

Honestly, it sounds a little like Krav Maga.