More BJJ bullshido - The Gracie Combatives Licensing Program™

[nobleidea]

funny how that's always the answer to being called out for stupidity.

Well then, what's your answer?

I don't take this shit as seriously as the rest of the people here because this shit has little consequence in the rest of life. Ask the average ass monkey about bullshido, BJJ, or MMA and they'll look at you like you are from Mars.

This is entertainment and most of you are Larp'r trolls and you know it. So, STFU and enjoy the fun.

If you want my serious thoughts on the subject, I can summarize them rather quick. It is ridiculous to hand someone with 0 grappling background a belt and instructorship after 2 weeks. Even an exceptional student could not do this. And BJJ will be nothing more than TKD-like in 30 years. And that actually makes me quite sad, because it is a good art.

[Tom Kagan]

Djchangster's thread derail regarding a Shuai Jiao practitioner being able to become proficient in BJJ/GJJ by reading a book went here:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61554

[jtkarate]

I'm going to go ahead and say "No" to this.

However, I'll also argue that this class has a different purpose than that.

The Combatives course is not meant to be a replacement for good Jiu-Jitsu training. It's not even designed to be a thorough Jiu-Jitsu course. It seems to me the purpose of the course is solely to introduce a few basic concepts of grappling into other martial programs. I don't think the Combatives course is pretending to do anything besides teaching basic techniques.

if all they want to do is teach the basics then they should reduce the number of techniques that they offer from 34 to maybe 20.

that way you would still be able to learn them properly and have time to pressure test them .

Also you would then be better able to teach them to the students that you are supposed to be able to rank up to 4th stripe.

[Askari]

Anyone have a list of the 34 techniques?

[nobleidea]

Judo has 67 throws and 29 Newaza techniques. That's 97 techniques for the math morons like myself. Lets say hypothetically you take 5 throws and 29 newaza techniques, well, that's 34 techniques, I don't see how someone with no grappling experience is going to become proficent in 34 techs in 2 weeks, even under an intense training method.

Honestly, it sounds a little like Krav Maga.

[wingchundo]

Again, to me it comes down to the sparring. My guess is there is little or no sparring in this program, making the instruction virtually useless and exponentially more useless when passed on to future students.

Rock and roll, man, all I can say is, bring on these new "white" and "blue" belts. It'll be fun choking them senseless at tournies.

[gangrelchilde]

If you want my serious thoughts on the subject, I can summarize them rather quick. It is ridiculous to hand someone with 0 grappling background a belt and instructorship after 2 weeks. Even an exceptional student could not do this.

I actually agree with this portion of your post. I think the rest of your comments aren't worth responding to, so I won't.

[Askari]

Again, to me it comes down to the sparring. My guess is there is little or no sparring in this program, making the instruction virtually useless and exponentially more useless when passed on to future students.

I'd be incredibly surprised if the Gracie's taught any sort of class with little or no sparring.

[Milquetoast]

Why is a guy with "Tai Chi gymkata" in his style field talking all this trash? He won't even admit what he does. Or he is trying to make it seem like a joke if he really does Tai Chi. Yeah, this program would be a great idea if they didn't hand out a blue belt at the end, but everybody in TMA's (including me) should spend less time waiting for the Gracies to mess up BJJ, and more time training to try to make their arts respectable again.

[Teh El Macho]

Judo has 67 throws and 29 Newaza techniques. That's 97 techniques for the math morons like myself. Lets say hypothetically you take 5 throws and 29 newaza techniques, well, that's 34 techniques, I don't see how someone with no grappling experience is going to become proficent in 34 techs in 2 weeks, even under an intense training method.

Honestly, it sounds a little like Krav Maga.

I agree with this. I honestly don't know what to expect the Gracies to do with this program.

[RobT]

Judo has 67 throws and 29 Newaza techniques. That's 97 techniques for the math morons like myself.

...and 96 for the people who can actually count!

[nobleidea]

..and 96 for the people who can actually count!

:laughing4

Thanks for pointing that out! :laughing4

[nobleidea]

I agree with this. I honestly don't know what to expect the Gracies to do with this program.

I know I come off as being a troll, because to some degree I am. I throw rude comments to get people thinking.

But, in all seriousness, this is taking a great art, BJJ not Gracie JJ, and turning it into something comical. This hurts the image of BJJ, grappling, MMA, and the martial arts in general.

I found a similar situation with Moni Aizik. I attended a seminar with Mr. Aizik, it was descent, nothing special. However, afterward he approached several of the students he deemed as "superior" to the rest of the attendees and spoke with us at length about becoming a KKM instructor. When I asked how long it would take, he told me each seminar for a level would be 5 days.

Now, I ask you, how am I going to become proficient in KM or anything in 5 days? Futhermore, how am I going to teach someone else?

When I brought up this point, I was quickly dismissed, and told it was because KKM was quick and easy to learn. :eusa_wall

[Askari]

But, in all seriousness, this is taking a great art, BJJ not Gracie JJ, and turning it into something comical. This hurts the image of BJJ, grappling, MMA, and the martial arts in general.

This doesnt really.

We've always known that Rorion was primarily interested in getting rich from teaching GJJ.

This is Mcdojo, but not an inferior product. It doesnt even come close to making people smell dog shit.

[slideyfoot]

I finally got round to listening to the Fightworks Podcast interview with Rener yesterday, where he attempts to answer the three big concerns, among a general discussion of the Gracie Combatives course.

In response to Caleb's question asking if this could lead to watering down BJJ (his full answer is much longer):

[...] if we just show them the techniques, and said go for it, go teach, that would be one thing, but if we spend half of the time of the course teaching them the techniques to perfection, and then provided they perfect those techniques, because the ones who don't perfect the techniques won't be able to complete the course, they move on to the second phase of the course which would be the Gracie teaching technologies. Then we spend the whole second phase on teaching them how to present the techniques...its a different level than just showing them the moves and sending them out on their own.

In response to a question asking if they get a blue belt after the course (again, full response much longer):

[...] after completing this course, they will qualify for a technical blue belt if everything is perfect. Now, just because they're attending doesn't mean they'll get it, but its within reach for those who qualify

Then finally, in response to the question of problems the public might have differentiating between Gracie Jiu Jitsu and Gracie Combatives, Rener again mentions that he feels the Gracie Combatives course the new instructors will be teaching is in fact superior to what many BJJ black belts run through in their class (again, the sport vs street argument).

The overall message I get is that Rener feels that they've developed this course to such a highly specific level that he's confident the product won't get watered down and will result in good self defence training.

But best thing to do is of course listen to the man himself and draw your own conclusions.

The talk with Rener is the last of three interviews, taking up the last 22 minutes or so (I think: might have been that it was 22 minutes into the show).