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More BJJ bullshido - The Gracie Combatives Licensing Programô

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    #16
    ...
    Get Certified to Teach in 2 Weeks

    No Previous Grappling Experience
    ...
    That description sounds like the definition of a McDojo. *Shudder*

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      #17
      Originally posted by Cassius
      This is most likely the Gracie attempt at cashing in on Modern Army Combatives by marketing them to the civilian population. Color me not surprised.
      I think that sums it up, cashing in on Army Combatives and what not. It seems specifically worded to imply that you have to be able to be at blue belt level to receive a blue belt but that the certification is separate and you just need to complete the required training.

      Also, I didn't know about the 1 month thing with Speed Jiu-Jitsu. I actually have that tape and thought the concepts were interesting. Unfortunately, the production was garbage and the techniques didn't have any logical flow to them.

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        #18
        I think the connection between the Combatives Techniques and the Blue Belt is actually intentionally misleading on the part of the advertisers.

        If you notice, the ad doesn't say, "When you complete the course, you are awarded a Blue Belt." What it says is, "When you've perfected the 34 Combatives techniques, you'll be awarded your Blue Belt." That's a very different thing.

        Now, 34 techniques is well over the "minimum number" of techniques that Royler and Renzo listed as being required for a Blue Belt in their book, Essential Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. But, as everyone knows, it takes a lot more than just knowing the techniques to have perfected them. Knowing the technique and knowing how and when to use the technique are entirely separate concepts.

        It looks to me like the Combatives Certification is similarly separate from a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Blue Belt. The ad doesn't come right out and say as much because more people will join if they think they're actually becoming good at BJJ after two weeks of training (intensive, though it may be).

        --Joe

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          #19
          They may be very clever in a bastard way, you only get the belt if you perfect the techniques. So basically you fail the exam and they get their money. Thus the art remains undiluted and they remain rich. If you pass the exam then your a born natural and may even deserve it.

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            #20
            Two comments, does anyone have a list of the 34 techniques and could you post it please? Second, there is a big difference between 80 hours of continuous training over 2 weeks and 80 hours of intermittent training over 14 + weeks. I am not saying you would necessarily be a blue belt but your skills would be a lot better than you would think. Also this is not competition level jiu-jitsu.

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              #21
              McDojo marketing. Does it come as a surprise to anyone? The model was invented and perfected in the US. Its a sure way to make money. From a business perspective, does it come as a surprise that a savvy businessman would do this? It ain't right, but the folks doing it decided they want more money.

              Its the way MA instruction goes in the US. Either work really hard for little to no monetary reward, or do this and make money.

              Its a wonder more people aren't doing this kind of thing.

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                #22
                next thing we will probably see is a 10yr old 3rd degree bb in bjj . Oh how the mighty have fallen ...*snicker*.

                Seriously ...couldn't anyone see what was happening. Same thing as with karate , tkd, kung fu..etc ..etc. When it got into the mainstream they saw money could be made and then the quality went downhill and you get all the Mcdojos' popping up everywhere. Only a matter of time b4 BJJ went the same way.

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                  #23
                  How in the hell are the Gracies behind and endorsing this shit? This is awful.

                  Anthony, have you contacted them yet?

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by HongKongFukYu
                    How in the hell are the Gracies behind and endorsing this shit? This is awful.

                    Anthony, have you contacted them yet?
                    Whorian...

                    Comment


                      #25
                      http://www.gracieacademy.com/instructorprogram.htm

                      There is the link for those interested.

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                        #26
                        Called the Gracie Academy and talked to Eric. Here are some of the things I learned.

                        1. It is a 2 week course. All day training.

                        2. The instructor who takes the course DOES NOT HOLD a rank, they already have their ranks from their school, whether it is TKD, KENPO, WingCHun, etc...

                        3. The instructor is then authorized to move up any of their students to 4th stripe White belt, to be later tested by Ryron, Rener, or Ralek, up to twice a year, to what is called a "Technical Blue Belt".

                        4. It is a break down of the 34 main techniques taught for Gracie Combatives. So I'm pretty sure De La Riva isn't in the syllabus.

                        That's the skinny on it. It's the same training the Gracie Academy gives out for the Army, FBI, etc, but given to Martial Arts Instructors who have their own school and want to have a basic ground fighting system.

                        If this gets out of hand and they are giving out black belts in BJJ, I'd say this was getting out of hand, but with the Matt Furey advertising put aside, this has more positive than negative for any school that has ZERO grappling inhouse.

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                          #27
                          Man, I gotta wonder about that. I've been training longer than this program (even including an hour count) and I've just got my four stripes. And these "instructors" will be able to give out my rank without training as long as I have?

                          Shit, I should sign up. I'm over-qualified.

                          This is just an invitations for schools to mislead students. For example, let's say I'm a black belt in TKD or whatever. I get certified. Now, I can say that you can learn BJJ from a black belt.

                          It just sounds like a bad idea. If you want your academy to have grappling training, shell out a few bucks and hire a guy who holds rank.

                          I also have to wonder how much of that two-week training is actually sparring. I can't imagine much, if any at all, if they're learning 34 techniques in 80 hours. That's one technique in every two-and-a-half hours of training.

                          So it sounds like these guys are going to do little more than drilling techniques without having to pressure test them in a realistic setting.

                          Why not just do chi-sao and call it a day?

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                            #28
                            At one time in the early to mid 1990s the Gracies were awarding Blue Belts (no stripe) to people who would come out and study for the full week. At the time there was a lot fewer BJJ practicioners in the United States so one could argue they were trying to spread the art. However a blue at eighty hours waters down the present accepted standards for this rank. Sorry Rorian but facts are facts.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by "Pandinha" aka Anthony
                              Called the Gracie Academy and talked to Eric. Here are some of the things I learned.

                              1. It is a 2 week course. All day training.

                              2. The instructor who takes the course DOES NOT HOLD a rank, they already have their ranks from their school, whether it is TKD, KENPO, WingCHun, etc...

                              3. The instructor is then authorized to move up any of their students to 4th stripe White belt, to be later tested by Ryron, Rener, or Ralek, up to twice a year, to what is called a "Technical Blue Belt".

                              4. It is a break down of the 34 main techniques taught for Gracie Combatives. So I'm pretty sure De La Riva isn't in the syllabus.

                              That's the skinny on it. It's the same training the Gracie Academy gives out for the Army, FBI, etc, but given to Martial Arts Instructors who have their own school and want to have a basic ground fighting system.

                              If this gets out of hand and they are giving out black belts in BJJ, I'd say this was getting out of hand, but with the Matt Furey advertising put aside, this has more positive than negative for any school that has ZERO grappling inhouse.
                              That could turn into a double-edge sword.

                              Anyways, the marketing has some shitty hyperbole that's too much to swallow, but people here are getting their panties wrinkled for the wrong reasons.

                              This is clearly a GJJ combative, and it's been established that GJJ as it is now its not BJJ. They even claim so, which clearly indicates the belts awarded in both systems are no longer orthogonal.

                              It's their art, their system and it's up to them to gauge their ranks and grading methods. This, in no way, shape or manner affect BJJ or its ranking system.

                              The only problem I could see it's that a tard gets a belt in GJJ and sells himself as the same color belt in BJJ. So, unless the Gracies condone or turn a blind eye to such faggotry, that would not be their fault (since they clearly state their system is different and *ahem* superior to BJJ.)

                              Now, I would imagine that, as craptacular as some of you may see these 34 techniques (I wonder what the hell are those), they must be taught rigorously. For whatever their failings, they still train alive... in what they do... and for what they claim these things are for. *

                              So what this means is that if they get an instructor from WC, TKD, Boxing, heck, fucking origami and get them to train in these 34 combative concepts, and if he is capable to do them proficiently (as they state in their website), then they earn a blue belt. It ain't a BJJ blue belt, so no big deal. Up to them if this is a blue belt in their combatives program or if they want to turn it into an equivalent to their GJJ blue belt.

                              I still believe this is a double-edge sword. If this becomes a watering down of their system, it may open the door to anti-grapple tards who take this combative course and then claim to teach an "anti-gr4pl3" system that works because they have a GJJ-awarded blue belt, a real d34dl3y blue belt, not a sports BJJ blue belt.

                              And that leads me to the thing I hate the most, and which reminds me of what I've heard from almost every brown and black belt BJJer with regards to the Gracies:

                              http://www.gracieacademy.com/instruc...tion%20Program
                              Today most Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu instructors focus entirely on the tournament techniques that have little to no applicability in a real street fight. Modern Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has been known to give practitioners a false sense of security that is often realized too late to make a difference.

                              No matter how good their shit may be for what they claim it to be (self-defense and combatives), that statement rubs every grappler wrong in so many ways and with so many good reasons. No matter how good of a fighter a GJJer may be, he can spout that shit forever and color it with hyperboles, and it will still be shit.


                              In summary, this isn't BJJ bullshido since they do not train, claim or train in BJJ, but in GJJ. Both systems have diverged, and are no longer equivalent despite their amount of stuff they share with each other.

                              McDojoism of valid fighting techniques. Yes.

                              Bullshido. Nope.









                              * I'd be curious to train these 34 things with them, but I would not be in a hurry to ditch BJJ + MMA (or BJJ + some form of standup) anytime soon.
                              Last edited by Teh El Macho; 10/18/2007 3:33pm, .

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                                #30
                                In summary, this isn't BJJ bullshido since they do not train, claim or train in BJJ, but in GJJ. Both systems have diverged, and are no longer equivalent despite their amount of stuff they share with each other.

                                McDojoism of valid fighting techniques. Yes.

                                Bullshido. Nope.
                                I think it's too early to say it isn't Bullshido and I think focusing on the BJJ/GJJ dichotomy is a mistake.

                                What it boils down to in my mind is this: If all they're doing is drilling, then it is Bullshido. If there isn't some hardcore sparring thrown in there (somehow...), it's on the level of chi-sao.

                                Again, I think lineage and being able to track belts is going to be even more important the more widespread this becomes.

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