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More BJJ bullshido - The Gracie Combatives Licensing Programô

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  • Jadonblade
    replied
    They may be very clever in a bastard way, you only get the belt if you perfect the techniques. So basically you fail the exam and they get their money. Thus the art remains undiluted and they remain rich. If you pass the exam then your a born natural and may even deserve it.

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  • Kung-Fu Joe
    replied
    I think the connection between the Combatives Techniques and the Blue Belt is actually intentionally misleading on the part of the advertisers.

    If you notice, the ad doesn't say, "When you complete the course, you are awarded a Blue Belt." What it says is, "When you've perfected the 34 Combatives techniques, you'll be awarded your Blue Belt." That's a very different thing.

    Now, 34 techniques is well over the "minimum number" of techniques that Royler and Renzo listed as being required for a Blue Belt in their book, Essential Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. But, as everyone knows, it takes a lot more than just knowing the techniques to have perfected them. Knowing the technique and knowing how and when to use the technique are entirely separate concepts.

    It looks to me like the Combatives Certification is similarly separate from a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Blue Belt. The ad doesn't come right out and say as much because more people will join if they think they're actually becoming good at BJJ after two weeks of training (intensive, though it may be).

    --Joe

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  • datdamnmachine
    replied
    Originally posted by Cassius
    This is most likely the Gracie attempt at cashing in on Modern Army Combatives by marketing them to the civilian population. Color me not surprised.
    I think that sums it up, cashing in on Army Combatives and what not. It seems specifically worded to imply that you have to be able to be at blue belt level to receive a blue belt but that the certification is separate and you just need to complete the required training.

    Also, I didn't know about the 1 month thing with Speed Jiu-Jitsu. I actually have that tape and thought the concepts were interesting. Unfortunately, the production was garbage and the techniques didn't have any logical flow to them.

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  • musicalmike235
    replied
    ...
    Get Certified to Teach in 2 Weeks

    No Previous Grappling Experience
    ...
    That description sounds like the definition of a McDojo. *Shudder*

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  • Cassius
    replied
    This is most likely the Gracie attempt at cashing in on Modern Army Combatives by marketing them to the civilian population. Color me not surprised.

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  • wingchundo
    replied
    Even at 80 hours, that is the equivalent of, say, 14 weeks of BJJ class at six hours a week.

    I've done a little more than double that and I barely have my white belt with stripes and I'm nowhere near ready to start teaching anyone anything other than the BJJ tournament point system, much less qualified for a blue belt. Now, I'm no phenom, obviously, but still. 80 hours seems a bit light.

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  • Askari
    replied
    How many hours of instruction are being offered?

    If it is in the neighborhood of 80 hours over the 2 weeks this is the norm for military combative instructor certifications.

    The sales pitch is a bit over the top, but that is also the norm.

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  • MSphinx
    replied
    Originally posted by slideyfoot
    On the main page, the testimonial a little way down mentions:


    The proviso on being "proficient in fight simulation" may be mitigating, if that means the student has to perform at a blue belt level in sparring before they get a blue belt, rather than as some kind of automatic certification after completing the course.

    Similarly, there's a section that reads:
    "Fight simulation" is described as "a series of drills". I wonder if the testing has any aliveness?

    Leave a comment:


  • Pandinha
    replied
    Originally posted by slideyfoot
    On the main page, the testimonial a little way down mentions:


    The proviso on being "proficient in fight simulation" may be mitigating, if that means the student has to perform at a blue belt level in sparring before they get a blue belt, rather than as some kind of automatic certification after completing the course.

    Similarly, there's a section that reads:
    Thanks for that. I'm wondering if the certification for blue is for Gracie Combatives vs Gracie Jiu Jitsu. It certainly reads that way.

    I will call Gracie Torrance today to find out.

    Leave a comment:


  • slideyfoot
    replied
    Originally posted by Anthony
    I don't see where it says Blue Belt is awarded.
    On the main page, the testimonial a little way down mentions:

    When students complete the course, they enter the next step in their training -- fight simulations -- during which the real effectiveness of the Gracie Combatives program becomes evident as they combine the techniques in a series of drills. Once the student is proficient in fight simulation, Ryron or Rener assess them for promotion to blue belt...again, not just any blue belt, but a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy blue belt. That alone is an amazing incentive for your students and it gives your program undeniable credibility regardless of your personal skill level as a jiu-jitsu practitioner. You don't need to be a jiu-jitsu black belt to offer this course. If you're a good teacher, then you can qualify to instruct Gracie Combatives.
    The proviso on being "proficient in fight simulation" may be mitigating, if that means the student has to perform at a blue belt level in sparring before they get a blue belt, rather than as some kind of automatic certification after completing the course.

    Similarly, there's a section that reads:

    Official Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Belt Promotion
    At the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy, a blue belt is awarded to anyone who perfects their understanding and execution of the Gracie Combatives techniques. Since you will be licensed to offer the complete Gracie Combatives course to your students, you will be authorized to promote them up to fourth degree white belt level. Up to two (2) times per year you can arrange to have a Gracie Academy Head Instructor visit your training center to evaluate all fourth degree white belt holders and award blue belts to those who qualify.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pandinha
    replied
    Originally posted by wingchundo
    I don't think anyone is shocked by BJJ bullshido at this point. I've read enough about it. Just wanted to add the latest to the pile which, again is not shocking given what we know about some of the Gracies' marketing and business practices. But, at least it's new.

    From the "Gracie Insider" e-mail (don't even remember signing up for it, but ok):


    Then some history and horrific hyperbole like this:



    What the fuck does that even mean?

    Well, there's more craptacular information here.

    Lineage is unfortunately going to grow even more and more important in BJJ. Hopefully, we're a few hundred years away from a full on _ing _un lineage war. Because we all know that BJJ was created by a Portugeuse nun who's name means "homely fall" and who had to fight several men to get one to marry her.
    I don't see anything wrong. The 34 techniques are from their own street fight experience, as it's widely known, Helio, Carlos, and the Gracie family have fought.

    I don't see where it says Blue Belt is awarded. As for the claims of teaching the FBI, ARMY, etc., that is true, and there is a plethora of data to support it.

    Leave a comment:


  • MadeOfOlives
    replied
    So upon completion of the program, you would be a blue belt in Gracie Combatives? And would then tell people that you are a blue belt in Gracie Jiu Jitsu, and then mumble an additional word?

    Its up to the holders of whatever trademark to dilute their brand as they see fit, I suppose. At least there is a slightly different name associated with the program. At least they are not, yet, giving out a black belt, which still has more impact on the public.

    This seems to me more like a turnkey program for existing school owners to claim they teach something similar to jiu jitsu, which goes on now anyway. Instead of sending your junior instructor to get a blue belt and then add BJJ to the list of styles taught at your school, now you can become a certified instructor, pay more money, and I would assume host a few seminars a year.
    Last edited by MadeOfOlives; 10/17/2007 5:47am, .

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  • slideyfoot
    replied
    Reminiscent of the Jerry Laurita IBJJA program that generated a huge thread on here a couple of years ago (not to mention the 'speedjiujitsu' tapes, which claimed to get you ready for blue belt in about two weeks). That also spilled over on JJ Gear (though there was plenty of support for Laurita): I've not yet seen a thread on this 2 week blue belt Gracie Combatives thing on there, but would expect them to pick it up.

    I've only been doing BJJ a year or so, but I'd imagine this looks familiar to those who remember the original Gracie tapes from some time in the 90s which included some kind of belt certification (IIRC).

    Also interesting that using the Wayback Machine would appear that the Gracie Academy had a similarly named program a decade ago to certify as an instructor, but that took rather longer:

    Originally posted by Gracie Academy, circa 1997
    The only instructor certification program in the United States endorsed by Helio Gracie is located at the Gracie Academy in Torrance, CA.

    Following is some basic information about the program:

    Participants choose either a full year program or one of three part-time training schedules: 1 month continuous training 3 times per year; 2 weeks X 4 times per year; or 1 week X 6 times per year.

    Training is 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, plus four 4 hours on Saturday.

    Level 1 certification may take one year or longer of continuous training; part-time participants can expect to train several years before achieving certification.

    Cost for training only is $600 per month for full time students; $750 per month for monthly part-time students; $250 per week for weekly part-time students. Participants are responsible for housing, transportation and other living expenses.

    Anyone wishing to be considered for this program, please call The Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy at 310-782-2708.

    Leave a comment:


  • frodo
    replied
    Ya, they are apparently giving out blue belts like candy. I just read about this. Check out their "exclusivity" requriements:

    What the fuck? Would you like fries with that? That you have to sign a NDA amuses me. All the "techniques" and "technologies" are already in US Army Combatives. I could just read my brother's manual and have him teach me all the techniques for free. What a joke.

    Leave a comment:


  • MSphinx
    replied
    Anyone who completes the instructor course gets an automatic blue belt? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it take a few years to even get a blue?

    At the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy, a blue belt is awarded to anyone who perfects their understanding and execution of the Gracie Combatives techniques. Since you will be licensed to offer the complete Gracie Combatives course to your students, you will be authorized to promote them up to fourth degree white belt level. Up to two (2) times per year you can arrange to have a Gracie Academy Head Instructor visit your training center to evaluate all fourth degree white belt holders and award blue belts to those who qualify.

    Leave a comment:

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