Southend-on-Sea, England: Kung Fu master Tony Anthony and Avanti Ministries

[Askanison]

Hey Folks, first time poster here - I actually came upon Bullshido whilst checking this Tony Anthony guy out after reading his book. I'm an athiest, and the book was loaned to me by a christian friend who knew I was a martial artist - I guess he wouldn't be a good christian if he didn't try, eh? Anyway, I wasn't too far into it before it started striking me as dodgy, and the lack of any sort of independent coroboration clinched it for me. His crusade to turn people towards christianity and away from martial arts just annoyed me - only in a closed evangelical mind could the two be mutually exclusive. Anyway, by a strange coincidence, another christain friend, thinking I would be interested alerted me to the fact that Tony Anthony is coming to speak at some sort of christain gathering in the local area. The advert is heavily martial arts related, despite, as we know, Mr. Anthony is only intersted in decrying the fighting arts. I've already been in contact with a couple of clubs in the area, letting them know not to be drawn in to thinking that this guys actually has anything positive or interesting to say about martial arts, and was seriously considering getting in touch with the event organiser - I don't want to see christians getting taken for a ride by this guy, any more than I want to see martial artists drawn in by his fakery. Any thoughts?

[madbull]

I have met Tony Anthony personally on 3 occasions and heard him share his life story on 2 of them. Tony is on a mission to share his faith with others regarding the martial arts side his art was not just a sport but a way of life leading to the violence and crime in his life, if martial arts led you to a life of crime would you also not convince others that this was wrong. personally i have trained in BJJ for 4 years under the Gracie Banner, where care and respect for others is learned, but i could see that if one were involved at a young age taken away from one's family and forced into training every day for may years i would probably use my martial art to express my anger.

I just say if you have a chance to see Tony Anthony speak go and listen to what he has to say and then decide.

He is not teaching anyone or claiming to as other frauds do so he is not harming anyone so why knock what he is saying.

[madbull]

si vis pacem parabellum

:waoya:waoya

I have met Tony Anthony personally on 3 occasions and heard him share his life story on 2 of them. Tony is on a mission to share his faith with others regarding the martial arts side his art was not just a sport but a way of life leading to the violence and crime in his life, if martial arts led you to a life of crime would you also not convince others that this was wrong. personally i have trained in BJJ for 4 years under the Gracie Banner, where care and respect for others is learned, but i could see that if one were involved at a young age taken away from one's family and forced into training every day for may years i would probably use my martial art to express my anger.

I just say if you have a chance to see Tony Anthony speak go and listen to what he has to say and then decide.

He is not teaching anyone or claiming to as other frauds do so he is not harming anyone so why knock what he is saying.

[Chili Pepper]

He is not teaching anyone or claiming to as other frauds do so he is not harming anyone so why knock what he is saying.

So that's your criteria for "harm"? As long as he doesn't teach anyone, then the possibility of him being a card-carrying "Liar for Jesus (tm)" is okay with you?

[CrackFox]

Tony is on a mission to share his faith with others regarding the martial arts side his art was not just a sport but a way of life leading to the violence and crime in his life, if martial arts led you to a life of crime would you also not convince others that this was wrong. [...] i could see that if one were involved at a young age taken away from one's family and forced into training every day for may years i would probably use my martial art to express my anger.

Let's try and look at this from another angle. What would you say if somebody who was raised in an industrial school / convent, suffering a childhood of institutional abuse at the hands of the church, were to preach that religion is wrong, and that we should become atheists? Would you say "fair enough mate" and throw away your bible, or would you say "hey, wait a second, you can't judge religon as a whole based on your case of abuse. Your problem lies with the people who abused you, and those that helped them cover it up, not with god."

So we have to look at Anthony Anthony: assuming what he says is true (big assumption), then he was raised in an abusive family, and this abuse took the form of martial arts training. You can't take his experience of martial arts and use it to say all martial arts are bad.

He is not teaching anyone or claiming to as other frauds do so he is not harming anyone so why knock what he is saying.

Bullshit is bullshit. I don't know how much he makes from his books and public speaking, but that's not the point. The man regularly goes in front of large groups of people and makes fantastical and unsubstantiated claims, and we must make it clear that this is not acceptable.

[littleoldme]

Hi. One of the most glaring mistakes that Tony Anthony makes in his book, and there are very many, is that he stroked, even played with a wild WHITE tiger (pure, unadulterated fantasy). This is written about in the early part of his book.
He claims this took place in the forest somewhere in Guangdong province in South China. It is easy for anyone to check in this day and age, and is an irrefutable fact that the only tigers that have ever inhabited South China, are, funnily enough, South China tigers. They are not WHITE and all authorities agree that not one specimen has been seen in the wild for at least 20 years.
WHITE tigers are a sub-species of the Bengal tiger and are totally unknown anywhere in China.
Tony Anthony would have maintained more credibility saying he swam the back-stroke with the Loch Ness monster. At least this claim could not be entirely disproved.
Sincerely, Stephen Prunetti.

Apologies for being in pedant mode

White tigers are not a seperate sub-species of Bengal tigers. This is a myth promoted by greedy entertainers and private zoo owners in order to add a conservationist spin on what is essentially a business venture.

White tigers are a genetic mutation that can occur in any tiger sub-species, although they are especially well known in Bengal tigers due to breeding programs to produce them where they are referred to as "endangered" Royal Bengal tigers.

There are very few tigers living in the wild in China. Both species, the South China tiger (small tiger, most endangered tiger in the world) and the Indochinese tiger (bigger more powerful but mostly existing in the wild outside China) live in inhospitable, remote regions. It is not impossible that a white tiger would be born in the wild to either of these sub-species but the event would be incredibly rare.

It is ridiculous to suggest that any human being would encounter any kind of tiger cub living in the wild in China and play with it without being attacked by the mother tiger. To claim that this happened and that the cub was white is completely preposterous.

*end pedant mode*

[littleoldme]

I have met Tony Anthony personally on 3 occasions and heard him share his life story on 2 of them. Tony is on a mission to share his faith with others regarding the martial arts side his art was not just a sport but a way of life leading to the violence and crime in his life, if martial arts led you to a life of crime would you also not convince others that this was wrong. personally i have trained in BJJ for 4 years under the Gracie Banner, where care and respect for others is learned, but i could see that if one were involved at a young age taken away from one's family and forced into training every day for may years i would probably use my martial art to express my anger.

I just say if you have a chance to see Tony Anthony speak go and listen to what he has to say and then decide.

He is not teaching anyone or claiming to as other frauds do so he is not harming anyone so why knock what he is saying.

The man is clearly a deluded fantasist.

He is making a lot of money and (more importantly IMO) wheedling his way into a position of great trust and authority amongst countless Christian families. Many of the people who seem inspired by him seem to lack the basic critical faculties needed to discern truth from fiction.

The themes of his fantastical stories are rather worrying. Child abuse, violence, coercion to commit criminal acts. A curious person would be wondering about what these stories say about the man himself?

You say he is not causing any harm. Would you trust him as a role model to your kids?

[littleoldme]

I did a quick check of Saudi Ambassadors to the UK. There were never any ambassadors with the name "Amin Fahed". This guy invented that name.

Also, on 6:08. he alleges that this Saudi ambassador asked him to "collect money" as if this ambassador was some type of extortionist. I would suggest that this is a serious and slanderous accusation. The UK Saudi embassy website is linked below. Perhaps somebody can contact the embassy and inform them that this guy is slandering them?

http://www.saudiembassy.org.uk/

I just phoned the Saudi Embassy

I realise that I forgot to ask the name of the gentleman I spoke to (first time I've done something like this), but I gave him a lot of information about the claims made by TA about Mr Amin and he will look into it. He seemed genuinely interested to find out more.

Hopefully they will sue him / his publishers.

[stephenprunetti]

Tony Anthony.

Hi. I last posted on here over two years ago. Good to see more and more people have seen through Mr Anthony's ludicrous fantasies. Two years ago, I asked his publisher, Malcolm Down of Authentic Media, if Anthony had ever been held accountable for the murder he freely admits to committing on Saudi Arabian soil, within the pages of his book. Malcolm Down assured me he'd be in touch to address my concerns. Funnily enough, he never did get back in touch. So, as i have more time these days, i've got back in touch with Malcolm, and i am currently awaiting his reply to my two-year old question. I'll post on here as soon as he replies.

[stubbe78]

Hi
I am a christian and I heard Tonys "show" I then bought his book and oh my...
I could not read further than chapter 5.
So I deciced to investigate a little. I found out that he talks about a cypriotic guy, Nikos Samson. This guy(Sampson is the correct spelling btw) was a historic person and he died 2001 66 years old. Now, Tony says that Nikos was over 70 years old in 1991(I'm not very good at math, but still??) I sent an email and gave him some opportunities to come up with a good explanation, but here is the answer: QUOTE]"Sorry if we spelt Nikos Sampson's name wrong. It is our mistake, we should have said: "...in his 60's". We can amend this in our next print run!" [/QUOTE]

[stephenprunetti]

The continuing saga of bullshitter Tony Anthony.

Hey, nice research Stubbe 78.
I think that you'll find that Tony Anthony is a very unsophisticated liar. Take, for example, his ridiculous kung fu claims. With even just a little bit of research, he could have fabricated a much better story, that would of been difficult to take apart. But reading his book, it's as if he's just wrote whatever came into his head at the time, from half-remembered TV shows he saw as a child.
When i first posted on here, two years ago, a lot of people had already seen him for the fraud he is. I really thought that, by now he would of been exposed in a big way. But this man is still touring the world, telling people a pack of lies, in the name of Christianity.
I was very pleased to find out that some of the people who post on this forum, managed to get his wikipedia page deleted. Top marks for that!
Malcolm Down, who heads Authentic Media (they published the book), assured me two years ago, after i'd been in touch with both him and Tony, that they were going to have a meeting, with Angela Little as well (who co-wrote 'Taming the Tiger') to address my concerns. He told me he'd be in touch. Very tellingly, he never did get back in touch with me. I emailed Malcolm Down yesterday to tell him, with respect, that he's just riding the gravy train of self-interest.
The big mistake Tony has made, within the pages of his book, is the tale he tells about his adventure in Saudi Arabia. He claims to have shot a man, at close-range, in the head. I have asked Malcolm Down, if Tony has ever been held accountable for this crime. To date, he has not answered me. I am certain that the Saudi authorities would be very interested to hear Tony's blatant confession of murder on their soil. Maybe even, our own criminal justice system would like to make a few enquiries.
I have recently contacted a reporter for a paper in Tony Anthony's home town. He was very interested to hear what i had to say, and has told me he'll be in touch. Whether or not this will help to expose this charlatan, remains to be seen. But i have informed Malcolm Down that i will do all i can to make sure that Tony Anthony is found out for who he really is.

[stubbe78]

I have to say that it's not easy for me to write in here, while not reading his book, there is a fantastic message about Christ in the second part of the show.
However, if he is a liar, he brings so many churhces and their christianity into a reliability problem. I just can't accept that

[stephenprunetti]

Malcolm Down's reply.

Dear Stephen,

Thanks for your email - i do appreciate you taking the time to write and apologise for not getting back to you initially over 2 years ago.

You will not be surprised to learn that we have had a few people raise similar questions to yourself over the years so Tony has now decided to add a 'questions and answers' section to his website www.avantiministries.com. The tab is already there and the page will be completed within a month.

Having just spoken to Tony on the phone he asks if you could check out this page when it becomes live and if you still have any unanawered questions feel free to email him via the website.

With regard to your specific question about whether we believe Tony or not, there is an assumption built into the contract that each author signs that they are telling the truth. In respect of the White Tiger incident which you mention, it can't actually be proved one way or the other. Tony thought he saw a white Tiger so that's what he wrote - if what he saw was not actually a white Tiger but some other animal that does not make him a liar.

With regard to your claims regarding Tony's knowledge of Kung Fu i can only defer to the 'experts' in China. The book has been translated into Chinese and although there were some queries similar to those you have mentioned, Tony has answered all of these now to the publishers satisfaction - if they were in any doubt of the claims he has made i'm sure they would have brought these up already. If, however, you are convinced that there are basic errors in his Kung Fu knowledge we would encourage you to detail what you think these errors are.

We can assure you that we have always taken seriously the issues you and others have raised, in fact some issues will be addressed in the next reprint of the book.

Thanks again for contacting us.

Warm regards

Malcolm

[stubbe78]

It's not the white tiger story or the kung fu knowledge that made me wonder? But I hope the section on their website will be useful.
Furthermore, if we just get answers similarly to the one I qouted in here, why bother?I used the contactform on his website, actually

[stubbe78]

But let's give them a chance